mei question.

oge14

oge14

Gold Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2007
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hi ya'll, don't make it over here very often. figured someone here might know what this is.

i found this hunk of steel in the most unlikely of places. i am wondering if anybody can shed some light on it for me. it is just under 22" long, 1/4" thick at the spine. it is in rough shape. lot's of pitting, edge look's like a toothy bread knife, the tip is gone. one side has a double blood groove, the other a single with a thin line below it. it is also very fast in the hand, and part's of the edge will still cut paper. looked at mei marking's till my eye's hurt last night. the only thing i came up with is the first character is hiro, the third saku. the one in the middle is a complete mystery to me. so, hiro ? made this. is what it translate's into, right? any help would be great, thank ya much.

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It was a Japanese sword, a wakizashi (short sword). The mei reads : Hirokuni saku ( Hirokuni (smith's name) ) saku= made this.

Rich
 
Aw, man. What a shame. Where did you find it? I'd be sorely tempted to try restoring it somewhat....
 
this was laying on the deck of a collapsing building. located on the side of a moutain in rural west virgina. i was bidding the job to clean the place up. walked around the property, jumped up onto some rotted plyboard deck. there she was half buried in leaves and left over building material.

does it have any value, besides putting a handle on it and using it around the yard?
 
That looks pretty far gone but I guess you couldn't hurt anything by trying to restore it some.
 
going to try a wire brush and some mineral oil at first. figure a light scrubbing won't hurt it to much.

does anyone have a guess of it's age? can not find any info, except a mention of hirokuni in 47 ronans sword list.
 
Oge14,
There were quite a few smiths who signed Hirokuni. Hawley's lists around 15 which used those particular characters for Hiro Kuni. Hawley's shows most of these signing with more extensive signatures, though nothing is set in stone. He does list one Hirokuni from Suruga c. 1504 which signed "Hirokuni saku", (HIR 259 in the Nihonto Meikan). Without being able to see any activity in the blade it would be hard to say anything for sure.

I would recommend that you don't do anything to it. It may be beyond repair, but perhaps not. I have seen a few that I thought were beyond hope that were brought back to life by a trained polisher.

This looks to be a well made sword and while the photos do depict a good deal of deterioration, I feel it warrants being looked at by a trained polisher. To have a polisher look at it would only cost shipping. Perhaps it can be saved.
 
That pitting looks too deep for any sort of restoration,however If it was mine I would get it checked out by an expert before I took a wire brush to it.Wire brushes and novice collectors ruin more art/history than anything IMHO.
 
thank ya guy's, i respect your warning's. where would one go about finding an expert or polisher that is trustworthy?
 
:eek: PLEASE DISREGARD THE LINKS POSTED ABOVE BY GADUNZ !!!

Those are not sword polishers !!!!

A Japanese sword polisher must apprentice for ten years before becoming eligible for licensure. Polishing a Japanese sword is an art in itself and requires a great deal of knowledge and skill. There are only two licensed polishers in the US, one in Canada. There are a couple of others with some training and at least one of those is quite good. This gives you an idea of how hard it is to become licensed.

I can help you with the process if you care to send me an e-mail.
 
southern i might take ya up on that offer. it's cool, did a look up of the yellowpages stuff, not sending it that way.

i was told the mei should be, hiroshi kuni saku
 
No offense meant but that is incorrect.

The characters inscribed on your sword are as follows:
廣 Hiro
国 Kuni
作 Saku

Hirokuni made this sword.

Note: the Kuni character used above is not the exact one seen on your sword. With a quick search I could not find the exact one in print. There were many variations of these characters. But without a doubt it reads Kuni.

廣 Hiro
予 Shi

There is no "shi" in the reading of your swordsmiths name nor inscribed on the nakago of your sword. There are approximately 50 characters for "Shi", but again none are inscribed on your sword.

As Dr. Stein also said in a post above "Hirokuni" is the smiths name, "saku" means "made this".

Again, if you want to contact me I will be happy to discuss your options.

Best,
Ed
 
thank ya sir, none taken. the marking in question seem's to be at odd's with a few people. honestly i have no clue what the danm thing read's. also, unless it will pay off the house and buy the hunting land i want. it's staying in the truck, to cut brush.

i may be chewing your ear off soon. is there anyone close to D.C. or Pittsburgh who is well versed?
 
unless it will pay off the house and buy the hunting land i want
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Well, that ain't gonna happen.


the marking in question seem's to be at odd's with a few people
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What is their rationale ? I don't see them presenting any argument to make their case ?

Take the second photo down, the one of the mei(signature), post it here under translation assistance:
http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/
This is the Nihonto Message Board, all they do is Antique Japanese swords.
Ask them what it says.
 
i ment the pay off thing lovingly, and as a joke. the brush knife part is going to take place. why have it if you can not use it.

this was posted on a few site's, so there are a few answer's. you also typed, with a quick search you could not find the exact one in print. a different mark could be used. it's cool brother, the advice not to scrub it. may have preserve some part of metal history.
 
i ment the pay off thing lovingly, and as a joke
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Ha, ha. Guess i should have put a smiley face behind my reply, I knew that you knew better than that.

with a quick search you could not find the exact one in print. a different mark could be used.
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Not exactly a different mark, just a variation of the same mark, ie; the small strokes inside the outer square can be different.
Yet, they are all read "Kuni".

I took the liberty of sending a link to this thread to a polisher friend of mine. Following is his reply, please note his reading of your nakago.

"Hi Ed, The Hirokuni, what a shame to be in so bad of condition. The nakago is nice and has that desirable hirazukuri sunobe shape. It is quite difficult to say for sure from the pics if the rust has eaten down far enough to do extensive damage. There is the possibility of getting into the shintetsu after removing the rust pits.The edge being chipped quite badly brings about questionable hagiri also. I am working on a similar condition Hisamichi so it is possible to resurrect a piece of such condition. And yes, I think it would be best to inspect in hand before making the decision to restore. Would also be ideal to find out how the yakiba is and how much it could endure the removal of the chips."
 
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has anyone ever told you, you are the man? where is your friend located at?
 
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