mercworx knives

J

jarrode93@gmail.com

Banned
Joined
Jan 1, 2005
Messages
74
Hey Cliff, have you or will you test a mercworx sniper, I`ve heard some pretty good stuff about them lately. How do you think it would hold up against a Fallkniven A1 strengthwise. Are those A1`s as strong as they say they are? Also, what would you reccomend , S30V or 154CM???
 
I have noted used one and have no real desire to do so, I don't have much use for double edges outside of a smatchet based design. The raw strength would likely be very great considering the amount of steel the low grinds leave at full thickness, similar to the A1 which I would pick readily from a utility perspective.

-Cliff
 
Depends on what you intend on useing the knife for.

I would personally recommend S30V with a proper heat treatment by Mr. Bos or Mr. Wilson. I don't have any experience with Mr. Wilson's work but Mr. Bos does an outstanding job.

Mercworx knives are interesting but I would rather go with a Strider for all around use. Just my opinion and experience.

Good luck.
 
jarrode93@gmail.com said:
Hey Cliff, what would have more resistance to breaking, the A1 or Sniper??
Click to expand...

The new A1 are laminates which make them much more resistant to impacts and gives them more flexibility.

What would you reccommend, S30V or 154CM?????
Click to expand...

In regards to preventing breaking, not S30V, that is one of the more fragile steels I have seen in regards to impacts. 154CM / ATS-34 isn't great, but S30V is much worse.

If breaking is a serious concern though you really need to be looking away from stainless steels in general. Instead look for a decent carbon or tool steel.

-Cliff
 
I don't know where Mr. Stamp gets his information but it is not accurate concerning CPM S30V !!! If CPM S30V, 154CM and ATS34 are all heat treated correctly to 58-60 HRc CPM S30V will outperform both 154CM and ATS34 from a toughness standpoint - this is fact. Extensive tests have been performed to prove this - production companies, custom makers and metallurgical laboratories have tested CPM S30V for toughness and it outperforms 154CM and ATS 34 !!!
 
He gets it from experience, and it's the same thing I've found. Yes it is tougher, in that it resists deformation (blunting, rolling, denting and rippling) better than ATS-34 or 154CM. In this same way, a file is 'tougher' than a hammer is. But, like a file, S30V (hardened to its potential) it is a very brittle steel, and has a nasty tendency to chip (or even shatter) if employed for any kind of serious impact work. Don't believe me? Take an S30V blade hardened to 59-61 RC and give it a good, hard, sideways rap against a vice or metal cabinet. You don't have to pull your arm way back, just a substancial wrist-pop should do the trick. Doubtless the argument will occur to many that whacking a vice isn't something they do with their knives. Okey-dokey. Just make real sure you never drop them...

This isn't to say it's not an excellent cutlery steel. People seem to think that to be excellent means it can do everything well. The Dodge Viper is an excellent vehicle but try hauling a boat with it. S30V's resistance to deformation and wear gives it great edge retention for slicing abrasive materials and push-cutting harder cutting mediums like hard plastics, dense wood and other metals. In these areas, it leaves 154CM and the like well behind. Those other steels are, however, more ductile and more capable of absorbing hard impacts without damage. Of course, their ability to do this is only high when compared to steels like S30V, D2 and the like. 5160, L6 or O1 will laugh heartily at abuse that would destroy any of the above steels. That is, until some S7 came along and schooled all of them. ;)

So, I have to agree with Cliff here. These steeply-ground knives are not likely going to be employed for much skinning work or whittling. For the super-tough, breaker bar, splitting and hacking kind of work they're designed for, neither S30V or 154CM is a very good choice, but the latter beats the former.
 
conan said:
If CPM S30V, 154CM and ATS34 are all heat treated correctly to 58-60 HRc CPM S30V will outperform both 154CM and ATS34 from a toughness standpoint - this is fact.
Click to expand...

The impact toughness through the grain is higher, the toughness across it is the same and that is how blades break. I have asked for the ductility several times to no result. While based on the materials spec's I have saw I would expect it to be at least as good as ATS-34 (which isn't saying a lot anyway), based on the actual use of knives I have done and seen done, it is worse both in terms of flexibility, sharding and fracture from impacts.

Someone asked me yesterday if a S30V knife could so what was done to a Safari Skinner awhile back, so I took a Green Beret, which should be one of the tougher S30V knives as it is ran soft, on the first pop from a 16 oz hammer (not into an anvil but a piece of birch) and it cracked trivially right down through the blade without sinking into the wood significantly. I then gave it another pop and another large chunk broke off. I can take a few pictures of the breaks if anyone is curious.

-Cliff
 
Cliff,
So you took a $200 + knife and hit it twice and destroyed it - not into an anvil - birch ?? Yes, I am curious and would like to see the photos. If my curiosity is not satisfied at that point i would like to get a hold of the broken knife and have a laboratory investigation done. Thanks
 
Knife :

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/CliffStamp/reeve/green beret/gb_broked.jpg

the red gunk is tuct tape, it prevents sharding on fractures. The break under magnification :

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/CliffStamp/reeve/green beret/gb_chunk.jpg

You can have the chunk in the middle if you want, just drop me an email. The grain, by eye looks very fine, perfectly smooth, the break however is dramatically curved.

The piece of birch is also still around so I can saw out the part which has the cut and you can have that to guage the level of the impact, which was slight.

As a side note, the knife is $300 unless the price has dropped significantly lately.

-Cliff
 
154cm/ATS-34, mucho better than S30V in a big blade. The problem is that that steel has gotten a bad wrap with all the cheapo mfg's who improperly heat treat it making it feel like crap. Gerber was a good example. their steels always felt like butter, no matter what the designation.

Well done ats34 is a great stainless steel, much like D-2 and 440C which are also very good Stainless steels. Kit Carson made most of his U-2's in 440C and the "real" operators who used them never broke one to my knowledge.
 
I just beat the bejesus out of a S30V blade that was hollow ground and as hard as hell (It took a while to cut into it with an Edge Pro)

For the pics click here


http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=361627

I always thought S30V would be a little brittle, this was sun seasoned Beech, the underneath was a bit rotten but the top was in excellent condition. The baton was Beech too and weighed about one pound.
 
Now THAT took some work! :) I'm not suprised you didn't end up chipping as this is actually the kind of work that S30V and D2 are very good at. Chopping involves sudden (and imperfectly aligned if a human is doing the swinging) jarring impacts on the edge, which will bring out the brittle nature of these steels. Batoning, conversely, is just a turbo charged version of push-cutting. The edge never leaves the cutting medium, and after the first few hits have imbedded it, its alignment stays consistant. Here, S30Vs resistance, or out and out refusal, to deform is perfect as it will not blunt and flatten as quickly as the more malleable steels. In this case, the rest of the body of the knife is actually under as much or more stress than the edge, as the wood has a vice grip on one part of it while the baton puts stress on it from many directions. Because of this, the simpler alloy tool steels will fare better in this use--structurally--in the long haul, but the price you pay for that is a more quickly blunting edge.

With this particular knife, short as it is, you could probably do a fair amount of chopping work without seeing damage, just because the blade is so light and the impacts on the edge much softer than they would be on a bigger blade. Of course, there would be no point to doing this, as batoning will move through wood much faster in a knife this size, but were you to do it just for experimentation that's likely what you would find.

Nice design and execution--I really like that one!
 
t1mpani said:
Batoning, conversely, is just a turbo charged version of push-cutting.
Click to expand...

The only concern I would have it hitting a small pin knot as this could focus all the impact on a small section of edge and if the blade twisted, could induce a snap across it.

Other than that, it would take a very brittle steel to shatter from wood on wood impacts. I would be surprised if you could break a file so readily and they are really brittle.

I really like that one!
Click to expand...

The blade is nice, the determination and out right stubborness to cut through that size of wood with that size of knife are fairly impressive as well. I would not mind having someone like that along for the ride the next time I had to haul out a load of wood.

-Cliff
 
Hey guys, During the cutting of the tree I did not twist or lever anything as I had heard about the brittleness of S30V for this, plus the stock is so thin at the end of the blade before the grinds start. My calipers measured it to eactly .5mm. I made 'V' cuts into the wood and then vetical ones to extend them. When a trench of sufficient width had been I made a lot of parallel cuts about 3mm between them and then made circular slicing nmotions with the flat of the blade horizontal and sliced off the wood to increase depth. Sometimes big peices would fall off throught splitting and cracking from the impact.

Woo-hoo though, now I can tout my stubbornness as a virtue :D :thumbup:
 
Cliff Stamp said:
The impact toughness through the grain is higher, the toughness across it is the same and that is how blades break. I have asked for the ductility several times to no result. While based on the materials spec's I have saw I would expect it to be at least as good as ATS-34 (which isn't saying a lot anyway), based on the actual use of knives I have done and seen done, it is worse both in terms of flexibility, sharding and fracture from impacts.

Someone asked me yesterday if a S30V knife could so what was done to a Safari Skinner awhile back, so I took a Green Beret, which should be one of the tougher S30V knives as it is ran soft, on the first pop from a 16 oz hammer (not into an anvil but a piece of birch) and it cracked trivially right down through the blade without sinking into the wood significantly. I then gave it another pop and another large chunk broke off. I can take a few pictures of the breaks if anyone is curious.

-Cliff
Click to expand...

Are you going to take this up with CRK?
 
While this one broke a bit easier than I would have assumed it doesn't surprise me it broke based on what else I have seen with S30V. In regards to expected behavior, I have asked Reeve numerous times many questions and he will give no information. When I first bought the Sebenza I asked about possible abuses, scope of work, again no reply. If Reeve wants to examine it I'll send it to him.

-Cliff
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top