Merlin, Matriarch or Civilian

Joined
Jul 29, 2000
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I posted this question to rec.knives, and got interesting responses. Maybe you can add to the topic:

I carry a Merlin for personal defense. Do you guys consider its blade length of 7.3 cm to be "enough" for that purpose, or should I switch to the larger Civilian?


Best regards,
Thomas J Ekman
SWEDEN
 
Thats about the same length as the blade on my Gunting and its MORE than long enough to handle the job.

Terry
 
Hmm... All of a sudden that old Judas Priest song "Breaking the law" starts playing in the back of my head.
But it´s ok. I won´t rat on you. Remember that all "non-standard" Spydies, like the Civilian (and the Matriarch also I think) are marked with the Rocky Mountain serial number (No.097) so it´s pretty easy to trace one of those (at least to the store) in case it´s found next to a bleeding thought-he-would-be-mugger.
And yes, fellow forumites, in Sweden you will probably be charged with attempted murder if you defend yourself with a knife while being attacked by a street hoodlum.
And even if you get away with that you are still facing up to 6 months in prison for carrying the knife itself.
And to show how much I think that law is worth I allways carry at least one blade...
 
I would add to this but already cast my vote in Rec.Knives, and I don't reside in Florida.
 
Well, a hawkbill blade would seem to produce a lot of drag as it passes through material. That would cause a ripping type cut rather than a slicing type of cut.

The ripping kind of cut a hawkbill creates would be useful for self-defense, as such a cut is probably extremely painful and would cause serious tissue damage. On the other hand, a clean slice cut is sometimes not painful at all.

The problem with a hawkbill blade is that all of that drag will make it harder for the blade to completely pass through the material it's cutting. The blade may slow down and could even stop in the target, or it could snag on harder parts of the target. Cutting through flesh is probably not difficult, but cutting through layers of clothing, buttons, buckles or zippers, and bone could present a big problem.

That's probably why you don't see a whole lot of hawkbill bladed weapons throughout history: they look cool, but there's the danger of them getting stuck or hung up during combat applications. If they're kept extremely sharp though, there's probably a lot less danger of that happening. Plus, if you're looking at a situation where one slash is all you need to make room to run away, then the danger of the blade getting hung up doesn't matter much.

One famous example of a hawkbill combat knife would be the kerambit. If you look at the kerambit though, you see that its design is totally geared toward dealing with the drag. They usually have very small blades (less than 3" long). The smaller the blade is, the less drag it creates, and a small blade will be less likely to penetrate deep enough to snag on bone. Plus, kerambits have a ring on the pommel that you can put a finger through for a secure grip. So if you do hit a snag, the knife won't be jerked out of your hand.

So, I think a Merlin might actually be better than a Civilian for self-defense, because the blade's a bit shorter. However, the Civilian's handle is curved at the butt end so you can use more force to pull it through.

But that's all just contemplation and speculation and you shouldn't take it too seriously.
smile.gif
However, if someone out there has both of these knives, it would be really cool to see a comparison test and/or review on them. That would probably provide better info.

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Cerulean

"We cut things to create things" - J.K.M.
 
The Merlin should be more than adequate for the job. Also better for utility uses than the Civilian and Matriarch. But a plain edge Matriarch would be sweet......


Paul

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Trust no one...
 
I think the Merlin is also better for self defense, because of certain legal aspects that may apply. The Civie and Martriarch were designed and marketed as 'weapons', whereas the Merlin is a 'tool'. Carrying a 'weapon' may cause some courts think that you were carrying a weapon and 'therefore you must have been looking for trouble'. Again, I am no legal expert at all (especially international law), but this aspect of using pocket knives for self defense, "was it a dedicated weapon or a tool that was just available", could be important in the legal aftermath.
This is te main reason why I am still not decided, on whether the Gunting would be a suitable self defense weapon for me.

Whether, in general, courts look at pocket knives for what they were designed for, or the potential as a weapon I don't know. If the latter would apply, then by all means get what suits your needs better.

Wouter
 
your either justified in self defence or your not. the knife is unlikely to tip the scales in one way or another.

if they guy is unarmed and alone the courts want you to do a John Wane and fight like a man with your fists.
if he has a friend or 2, or a weapon you will probably be justified in your actions provided you dont have a rep of being a badass with the cops.
 
..Definetly the Merlin is better, because is smaller, and it's what you hide that makes you harmfull, not what you show... and anyway also Annibal Lecter uses an Harpy, so...

EX ALTO FULGOR
 
I guess I'll stick my 2 cents in here as well. I must agree with cerulean. The Merlin/Harpy blade was designed for cutting line. In clothing, sharpness is the issue. A factory sharp serrated Civilian with its thin sharp tip and large belly is less likely to hang up in clothing. There is also a fairly large "expnsion" area at the butt for purchase to prevent pulling the tool from the hand.

Where local laws might be a problem, the serrated Cricket on a keychain (for purchase) is interesting.

sal
 
im sorry, i missed that logic here. if you carry a knife for self defense, as this thread is about finding the best one of the three, merlin, matriarch or civilian is best for self defense, and then people come in and tell you that you should not carry a knife marketed as a weapon cause it will look bad in court.

then dont carry a spyderco. dont carry any knife. dont carry a kubboton or a sharp pin.
dont learn martial arts and just do whatever the homicidal attacker wants you to do.

if a knife is marketed as a weapon that usualy means its better at its intended purpouse than a knife marketed as a utilitu piece. their are lots of exceptions, but that generaly holds true.

which would you chose, a under-over shotgun in .410 or a 3 inch magnum 9 shot semi auto with a pistol grip for your home defense.
OOOOOOOOOOO the second one looks like it was designed as a weapon. YES, thank you for that assessment.

the civi and matriarch are weapons. fine. if you are are justified in using anything, why not use a weapon, instead of a tool.
if you plan on being a moron and having the zoro syndrome and pull a knife when your life is not on the line, then you will be convicted even if you use a tool.

hey, its your rear. use a tool of cutting fishing line that is politicaly correct, or use a civilian which is designed for social work which is as UN-PC as it can be.

btw, a civi is inside my waistband, so you know where i am coming from.
if it needs to be drawn, i would have been justified in pulling a .357 magnum and blowing someone's head off.

in thinking about scenarios where you would use that knifeor any lethal weapon, ask yourself, "would i be justified in drawing and using a handgun in this circumstance?"
 
Far being it for me to tell people what they 'should' do. I was merely trying to raise a point, that 'might' be a consideration. Whether the intended design of a particular knife is something that would be a legal concern, was something I asked myself when I read the posts. I do not even know the answer to that, as I tried to clarify in my post.
From what I know about my country, you can use a weapon for self defense, but if you carried it as a dedicated weapon, you might be in trouble. This why I prefer more 'tool-like' knives, but that's also mostly my personal preference. That's what I believe is one of the most important aspects of selecting personal defence knives, i.e. does it fit your personality and legal environs.

Wouter
 
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