Metal Recommendation For First Timer?

H

Harrison87

Joined
Dec 23, 2022
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QUESTION: Metal recommendation for a first timer knife maker?

To clarify, I don't have a belt grinder or jig or drill press or the like. I have some Nicholson files, an angle grinder, and my local Ace Hardware. I'm not looking to sell, just have fun fixating my mind on building a knife. I did metal smithing years ago in high school; curious if my hands still have some creation left in them. Carbon vs stainless steel, I'm indifferent towards either. Just looking for something I can easily cut, shape, grind, etc. with hand tools.

Cheers!
 
5160 is what I learned with and is still the steel I prefer when I buy an outdoor knife.

It’s one of the “toughest” steels made in terms of edge impacts (chopping wood, etc.)

Pros:
-Inexpensive
-Easy to forge/grind/heat treat
-Doesn’t need (but could probably benefit from) an expensive/complicated oven - a toaster oven can work well for tempering
-Fine grained carbon steel takes a sharp edge easily and can be sharpened easily with natural stones

Cons:
-Corrosion - this steel will rust, and over time the edge will lose some sharpness from micro-corrosion caused by water vapor in the air
-Comparatively low wear resistance (will dull more quickly while slicing rope for instance) than some other steels
-…….. can’t think of another one

I read and asked MANY questions here for about a year before I attempted my first knife. I’m not saying you need to do that, but there’s a lot to know if you want to get good performance from any steel.
Good luck!

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I'll look into that steel. I've watched tons of YouTube on the basics. There'll definitely be questions along the way. I just want to make sure I'm working with a forgiving steel. There's all these "super steels" now. I'm assuming all are workable with hand tools, technically?

Thought of O1 or D2, but being tool steel I assume they are really tough to cut and grind? Then I thought of 35svn or CPM154, but merely because they seem to be quite common.
 
Just humble opinion, but I would start with scrap, and build neural pathways / technique on that.

Is it safe to presume - based on your tool inventory - that you are focused on stock removal (versus forging)? There is some in one, but not t’other, if that makes sense.

I started with a hand-cranked farrier’s forge, fueled with WV pea coal, and a pair of channel locks, a hammer, and an anvil. A buddy gave me an old bucket with scrap steel in it - including some rail spikes - and off I went…

Good luck, and please post pics of your progress!
 
The Blacksmith said:
Just humble opinion, but I would start with scrap, and build neural pathways / technique on that.

Is it safe to presume - based on your tool inventory - that you are focused on stock removal (versus forging)? There is some in one, but not t’other, if that makes sense.

I started with a hand-cranked farrier’s forge, fueled with WV pea coal, and a pair of channel locks, a hammer, and an anvil. A buddy gave me an old bucket with scrap steel in it - including some rail spikes - and off I went…

Good luck, and please post pics of your progress!
Click to expand...
Yeah, I have just hand tools. I don't have a forge, oven/kiln, or 2x belt grinder. My goal at the moment is merely design a knife, cut/shape, grind and sharpen with what I have. Step 2 would be hardening (but I'll cross that bridge when I get there). Step 3 would be creating a handle and smoothening that. Step 4 is making a sheath out of kydex probably.

If/When I get this going, I'll make sure to post pics. Thanks!
 
A friend of mine made his first two knives in 8670 steel by stock removal, he then hardened the two in a coal grill, quenched in oil and tempered in his kitchen oven. The knives where pretty good! 8670 is a very forgiving steel, and also a quite tough one!
 
scdub said:
5160 is what I learned with and is still the steel I prefer when I buy an outdoor knife.

It’s one of the “toughest” steels made in terms of edge impacts (chopping wood, etc.)

Pros:
-Inexpensive
-Easy to forge/grind/heat treat
-Doesn’t need (but could probably benefit from) an expensive/complicated oven - a toaster oven can work well for tempering
-Fine grained carbon steel takes a sharp edge easily and can be sharpened easily with natural stones

Cons:
-Corrosion - this steel will rust, and over time the edge will lose some sharpness from micro-corrosion caused by water vapor in the air
-Comparatively low wear resistance (will dull more quickly while slicing rope for instance) than some other steels
-…….. can’t think of another one

I read and asked MANY questions here for about a year before I attempted my first knife. I’m not saying you need to do that, but there’s a lot to know if you want to get good performance from any steel.
Good luck!

View attachment 2025459View attachment 2025460
Click to expand...

I love that knife 👍. Everything you need, nothing you don’t. Good job.
 
A2 is a good place to start for stock removal. You can order precision ground pieces in just about any dimension for cheap, even from places like online metals. Easy to heat treat and is actually a decent steel. I occasionally go back to it.
 
Just for variety of opinion here, I've never understood the recommendation to start with junk steel. Even really good steel can be cheap, especially when compared with your time spent making the knife. Why waste hours of time making a knife-shaped object out of junk when an appropriately sized piece of good steel is going to run you ~$10?

I like the suggestion of 5160. If you want good performance out of it, I'd think seriously about sending it to a professional heat treat company. If you are going to send the knife out for professional heat treating, you can choose basically any steel you want and make something really cool.

Aaron Gough on YouTube did a great video on knife making without a grinder. I used his techniques for a few knives and they turned out great.
 
marrenmiller said:
Just for variety of opinion here, I've never understood the recommendation to start with junk steel. Even really good steel can be cheap, especially when compared with your time spent making the knife. Why waste hours of time making a knife-shaped object out of junk when an appropriately sized piece of good steel is going to run you ~$10?
Click to expand...
That’s cool, but you don’t really need to understand it - it’s an opinion, like a favorite band, a favorite color, or whether one likes cilantro. And note, I said “scrap”; I never used the term “junk”.

It may somewhat have to do with hammer forging versus stock removal. And I am definitely not saying that one is better, only that they differ. I have only ever done blacksmithing, where desired blade anatomy is arrived-at through carefully-placed hammer strikes, on-anvil location, temperature control, and so forth.

I knew I was going to need to learn metallurgy, hammer discipline, heat control, and a bunch of other skills, all at the same time. So I started with foot-long sections of rebar, to learn how to use the forge, and basics - like how to pick up a piece of steel with tongs. Heck even the smithy layout was a journey, as I initially had the forge too far away from the anvil. So I lost working time at each heat. I also overheated pieces early on, until I could read color better - turning a couple of near-finished blades into sparklers.

Beyond the learning, it also made me appreciate working on a good piece of steel, as well as how different types of steel behaved. In a sense, as I got better, I earned my way to working on better material.

If that doesn’t apply for you, groovy. It’s nothing about money, as you assumed, but rather about the journey. Moving from apprenticeship to being a craftsman, and maybe one day something else.
 
My first handful of blades were O1 cut out with a hack saw, filed to shape. Sent to Paul Bos for heat treat. Then upon return, hand sanding with blocks of either hardwood or micarta and dowels for inside radii. More hand sanding and then hand sanding to finish.
 
The Blacksmith said:
That’s cool, but you don’t really need to understand it - it’s an opinion, like a favorite band, a favorite color, or whether one likes cilantro. And note, I said “scrap”; I never used the term “junk”.
Click to expand...
You seem to be taking my statement personally. All I did was add in my own opinion, same as you.

In my opinion only and specifically to the OP, starting with an unknown and likely junk steel is a bad move. You're going to dump a lot of time into a first knife and it's likely going to turn out just fine since you're doing stock removal, so start with a known and good steel and get something useful out of it at the end. You can do every single part except heat treatment, and Peter's Heat Treat will do that part affordably and effectively.
 
Thank you all for the replies. I'm Arizona (Chandler/Phoenix). Lots to consider with the suggestions here. Yeah, 80crv2 seems to be the craze, so I am leaning towards that. I was going back and forth between O1 and 52100 too. I get practicing with scrap metal to learn the art, but part of me wants to get a good metal that I can use too if this project turns out pretty rad -- if it does, I'd like to use the knife for edc/bushcraft -- thinking 3 1/2" blade, 7 1/2" OAL w/G10 handle or a wood, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

I don't have an oven but I'm a full-time teacher and wonder if I can use the school's art kiln for the heat treat?! Hmm . . .

Thanks again for the help. Cheers!

[EDIT] reread about Peter's Heat Treat. I'll look into that.
 
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