Micarta fact V fiction

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dirtvictim

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Or how to really tick off a lot of knifemakers.
Canvas, paper, linen, wood, fiberglass, carbon fiber or any of hundreds of different materials were and are currently used in thermosetting plastics or "phenolic resin" by then Westinghouse Micarta and later Micarta Industrial and now Norplex-Micarta.
My point here is either call all phenolic resin laminates "micarta" or don't call any that because it's just plain lack of logic to call only a select few micarta while at the same time argue like some here have that the other myriad of thermosetting plastic laminates made by micarta somehow are not also micarta, I call BS on that thought process. They all are or they all are not.
All inclusive or non inclusive that should be the take away here, I say none should be called micarta that would simplify everything and if I owned the name no one would be abusing it.

As shown by other members elsewhere here in old ads there were many different thermosetting plastic laminates included under the micarta name originally used not just canvas, linen and paper some other materials are noted above so I have been proven correct that many more materials fall into the thermosetting category, thanks to those participating and for substantiating my claims which was easily confirmed with little research.

Argue all you want but the truth has been presented and verified. Excerpt from WH media ad
"Micarta is a Westinghouse trade-name that covers all of the molded products manufactured by the Micarta Division. It is a plastic material using paper, cotton cloth, wood or fiberglass as filler materials. The fillers are impregnated with a fluid synthetic resin that is composed basically of phenol. When properly compounded with other chemicals this produces a fluid resin that can be changed to a solid by the application of heat. This change from a liquid to a solid is known as polymerization." Today the list of materials used is in the hundreds and still all inclusive under the micarta trade name.
Micarta is nothing more than a brand name of a multitude of thermosetting plastic laminates also known as phenolic resin laminates, stop using the name micarta for a few select products, I know you won't though, I suspect most are as stubborn as I am. Till next time guys.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micarta
 
Adam Buttry said:
Of all the things to climb on a soapbox for. Good grief man!
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What do you do when you are told you are wrong? Doubt you just sit back and let others continue to berate you. I have no problem admitting when I am wrong. What else is wrong in the knife industry that needs addressing I have a lot of boxes.
 
So I have to chime in. I get what you are saying about facts or facts and how "Micarta" is a name brand and there is no argument there; but there is another "fact" that is missing here. The fact is vernacular in society evolves with common consensus; slang or jargon end up becoming "correct speech". Connotations overtime become denotations. I remember when Ginormous wasn't a real word, but now it is. With your fact based argument, then I should be able to use the word gay to describe a happy person, that won't fly nowadays. So the point is regardless of what the facts are, I still blow my nose with a "Kleenex" even though they are a store brand. If someone asks me for some "Chapstick" I'll give them burt's bees, I still ride "jet skis" even though its made by Yamaha. I love a nice roast made in my "crock-pot" though its made by Hamilton beach. I use "q-tips" for my ears, "tupperware" for food in the fridge, I call all hook and loop "velcro", mend my owies with a "band-aid", throw all my garbage in a "dumpster", and write love notes for my wife on "post-its". I think you get the point, that no matter how valid your "facts" are the fact is society at large has already accepted the term "micarta" for a canvas/linen/paper laminated material and there's no point trying to fight it.
 
Overall, most of the people who I come across understand "micarta" as linen, canvas, or paper reinforced phenolic. If I were to start selling knives with "phenolic" handles most of my customers wouldn't even know what I was talking about. It's useful short hand. Like calling acetal plastic "Delrin" (when it should properly be called polyoxymethylene) or acrylic=Plexiglas (rather than polymethylmethacrylate), Nylon (invented by Wallace Carothers at DuPont!) is properly "polyamide".

^ they're polymers with names. The common name most makers use for the phenolics is micarta. People know what "micarta" is. Well, most people do.

Now, the unfortunate reality is much micarta is low quality import, and the really unfortunate fact is that Norplex (the shlups that bought the name) are very guilty of this. I believe the best quality substitute for the Westinghouse original is "Accurate" brand phenolic made in Yonkers NY, it is properly branded "Acculam" but none of my customers know what that is. So I will continue to call it micarta. Sorry.
 
When I tell a customer that I am making their knife from CPM 154 with a Rockwell of 60 and with a handle of linen Micarta I have warranted the knife to those specs. I only use Westinghouse Micarta because I know what it is and my customers do as well. I don't sell substitutes for real Micarta and I don't feel "butt hurt" if you disagree. You can sell what want and call it whatever enriches you...but I won't . Larry

BsamI5Gh.jpg
 
LARRYZ10 said:
When I tell a customer that I am making their knife from CPM 154 with a Rockwell of 60 and with a handle of linen Micarta I have warranted the knife to those specs. I only use Westinghouse Micarta because I know what it is and my customers do as well. I don't sell substitutes for real Micarta and I don't feel "butt hurt" if you disagree. You can sell what want and call it whatever enriches you...but I won't . Larry
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That's a nice looking blade. I wouldn't misrepresent what I make or sell even if it enriches me. I doubt most here would.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
Overall, most of the people who I come across understand "micarta" as linen, canvas, or paper reinforced phenolic. If I were to start selling knives with "phenolic" handles most of my customers wouldn't even know what I was talking about. It's useful short hand. Like calling acetal plastic "Delrin" (when it should properly be called polyoxymethylene) or acrylic=Plexiglas (rather than polymethylmethacrylate), Nylon (invented by Wallace Carothers at DuPont!) is properly "polyamide".

^ they're polymers with names. The common name most makers use for the phenolics is micarta. People know what "micarta" is. Well, most people do.

Now, the unfortunate reality is much micarta is low quality import, and the really unfortunate fact is that Norplex (the shlups that bought the name) are very guilty of this. I believe the best quality substitute for the Westinghouse original is "Accurate" brand phenolic made in Yonkers NY, it is properly branded "Acculam" but none of my customers know what that is. So I will continue to call it micarta. Sorry.
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Don't be sorry, I'm just calling it out. I know the industry has created this myth and it will likely never be corrected.
 
LARRYZ10 said:
When I tell a customer that I am making their knife from CPM 154 with a Rockwell of 60 and with a handle of linen Micarta I have warranted the knife to those specs. I only use Westinghouse Micarta because I know what it is and my customers do as well. I don't sell substitutes for real Micarta and I don't feel "butt hurt" if you disagree. You can sell what want and call it whatever enriches you...but I won't . Larry

BsamI5Gh.jpg
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Where do you get your linen Westinghouse Micarta? Given the quality issues I've had with Norplex I won't use their material anymore and Westinghouse hasn't made micarta is so long I haven't been able to find a reliable source for it in many years. I wonder where you get real (certifiable) Westinghouse material?

orig.jpg


The last time I had a piece with a real Westinghouse label on it I saved it for something special. That was years ago. I'd love to get some more.
 
In interest of spreading the Forum Blabber workload, Shall I be first to start a ”Bakelite” crybaby thread ?

Dunno about you guys, I only make sticktangs. Use alot of bakelite (and formica) in the layers stack-up...
Btw, gotta be careful with vintage Bakelite, alot of formulas claimed including asbestos in its filler.
 
tr3yanderson said:
So I have to chime in. I get what you are saying about facts or facts and how "Micarta" is a name brand and there is no argument there; but there is another "fact" that is missing here. The fact is vernacular in society evolves with common consensus; slang or jargon end up becoming "correct speech". Connotations overtime become denotations. I remember when Ginormous wasn't a real word, but now it is. With your fact based argument, then I should be able to use the word gay to describe a happy person, that won't fly nowadays. So the point is regardless of what the facts are, I still blow my nose with a "Kleenex" even though they are a store brand. If someone asks me for some "Chapstick" I'll give them burt's bees, I still ride "jet skis" even though its made by Yamaha. I love a nice roast made in my "crock-pot" though its made by Hamilton beach. I use "q-tips" for my ears, "tupperware" for food in the fridge, I call all hook and loop "velcro", mend my owies with a "band-aid", throw all my garbage in a "dumpster", and write love notes for my wife on "post-its". I think you get the point, that no matter how valid your "facts" are the fact is society at large has already accepted the term "micarta" for a canvas/linen/paper laminated material and there's no point trying to fight it.
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Why just accept it? I don't have to. I may not be able to change it but I surely won't just accept it. I choose to call it phenolic and will continue to do so. If every maker decided to stop calling these three phenolics micarta then guess what the industry would follow, along with consumers. Stubborn makers won't though as noted because its profitable.
 
And, of course, we see a lot of people taking about "Mycarta" which is typically some kind of fabric reinforced epoxy laminate.........
 
dirtvictim said:
Canvas, paper, linen, wood, fiberglass, carbon fiber or any of hundreds of different materials were and are currently used in thermosetting plastics or "phenolic resin" by then Westinghouse Micarta and later Micarta Industrial and now Norplex-Micarta.
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You are not "ticking off" knifemakers. You are showing your lack of knowledge regarding registered trademarks.

Westinghouse registered the name Micarta®. International Paper bought the trademark from Westinghouse. Norplex bought the trademark from International Paper.

Micarta is a registered trademark. Only the owner, Norplex has the right to define the trademark. They have this privilege because they have paid the U.S. government money for ownership of the trademark.

Phenolic laminate made by Westinghouse, International Paper and Norplex can properly be called Micarta because they own or owned the name. No other manufacturer has the right to use the name Micarta.

We have actively been trying to educate knifemakers and collectors about the difference between Micarta and phenolic laminate. Most people appreciate learning the difference.

IMO, there are too many people claiming to have Westinghouse Micarta. It is very difficult to trace material back several decades. People are claiming to sell "Westinghouse Micarta" with little or no provenance. Buyers are eager to have what they want. They do little or no research because ignorance is bliss and the cycle continues. Advertising a knife with "International Paper Micarta" is not as appealing as "Westinghouse Micarta".

Chuck
 
It’s just like the hacky sack or the Allen wrench. People instantly know what thoes are. But if you said foot bag or hex wrench not so much.
 
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