Micarta Seperating from Tang WTF

R

RatDrall

Joined
Feb 7, 2009
Messages
467
I've bought two expensive knives lately, full tang knives with micarta scales, and both of them suffered from the same problem: The micarta handles were seperating from the tang, at the top of the handle towards the blade, enough to see light through right next to the steel.

One knife was from Bark River, the other a Camillus CQB1. Both knives were bought new in the box (although I know that the Camillus had been sitting for a long time). The Bark River, I sent back to the factory and had them "upgrade" the micarta handles to G10 in the color I wanted.

The Camillus I have sitting in front of me and I'm trying to figure out what to do with it. I am concerned that water or moisture will get inbetween the handle and the steel and eventually cause rust.

What do I do?

I believe that knifemakers use strong epoxy to secure handles to their full tang knives, but the gap is so thin that I don't think I could even get much in there. Also, there is some jimping on the back of the blade towards the top, I'm afraid I'd get it all gummed up with epoxy inside the jimping.

The knife came with a lifetime warranty card, and I know that Camillus is operating again. Think they'd reattach the handles securely if I sent it in?

Any advice is appreciated, thanks guys :(


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RatDrall said:
The knife came with a lifetime warranty card, and I know that Camillus is operating again. Think they'd reattach the handles securely if I sent it in?

Any advice is appreciated, thanks guys :(
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Crap, from their site:

Lifetime Warranty – You have an old Camillus knife (not manufactured by Acme United Corporation) that has broken and it is supposed to be covered by a Lifetime Warranty…

Acme United Corporation did not take ownership of the Camillus Knife Company. Long after Camillus closed its doors, we purchased the intellectual properties of Camillus (designs, trademarks/brand names, patents, etc.). This has allowed us to give new life to this trusted brand and combine the Camillus heritage with our innovative material technologies and design capabilities. We do not have any responsibility for technical issues or warranty claims related to products manufactured prior to the purchase of the patents and trademarks by Acme United Corporation in 2007. Camillus knives were manufactured for 135 years and it would be beyond our ability to provide warranty support on all of these products. We will, of course, honor the Lifetime Warranty on all of the products that are manufactured and sold by Acme United Corporation now and going forward. We appreciate your understanding and hope that you will continue to purchase Camillus products.

http://www.camillusknives.com/Support/Older+Camillus+Knives/Older+Camillus+Products/1470
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Warning to knifemakers:

Not all phenolic is created equal.

I got a few hundred pounds of linen and canvas phenolic from my usual supplier about a year ago. It is was the largest order of the material I've ever gotten in one lot. I made some parts out of it (not knife scales) and noticed it didn't smell very bad while machining it. "Oh, that's nice"...

I have this bad habit of acquiring material and sitting on it a year before using it for scales...

The stuff shrunk about .010" per foot. And flat sheets of it curled. Not a lot, not crazy. But the stuff should be totally inert. Properly manufactured material should be very stable.

I called my supplier, chewed his ass (I buy tons of different materials so I get to be an asshole every once in a while) and I learned the "manufacturer" had simply started "importing" the stuff.

... so beware. There is Chinese "micarta" on the market right not that isn't as stable at the quality domestic material we're used to. It doesn't stink as much while cutting it. Phenolic should stink a little. Make sure you're getting American made material.
 
I was recently watching a review on a bark river knife that a bolster had fallen off of (under normal use) and the owner commenced to do a test on the rest of the knife by lightly tapping on the other bolster, as well as the mosaic pins and hardware that was holding the scales in place, and they came off almost effortlessly. Turns out there was almost no epoxy on the pins or the scales.

I suspect lack of epoxy COULD be the issue on your bark river knife, but it could also be a batch of chicarta.

As for Camillus no longer offering warranties on pre Acme United products, that's a shame. You're best best with the Camillus may be to simply remove the old scales and epoxy them back on your self with a decent epoxy. Unfortunately, this will mean drilling out and replacing any pins or rivets in the scales.
 
I saw the review mentioned above. I subsequently did a re-handle job on a different BRKT knife, and upon drilling out the original corbies, the scales fell clean away - the only thing still holding them to the tang was the peened lanyard tube (which was done correctly). There was epoxy of some sort under them, but not much, and whatever it was it didn't stick worth a damn to the micarta and peeled right off the steel. This is a knife that sells for $225 :rolleyes:

I can't really comment on the Camillus in the pics above; from here it looks like it could be a ding in the handle material itself showing a "gap", not necessarily the whole thing lifting away. Got another angle on that?

In both cases it does prove one thing - corby bolts are the cat's meow :D
 
As to what can be done to seal this handle;
Use a tiny drop of thin CA. Put it in the gap with a toothpick. Apply more as it wicks in. Stop when no more will go in the gap. Let cure for 24 hours. Wipe/rub any excess off with acetone. A piece of sharpened brass rod will push any dried resin out of the jimping if it remains. Repeat if necessary.
 
+1 for Stacy there. Nathan, good stuff about micarta smelling bad when cutting/shaping- I have noticed varying degrees of stench to the stuff myself. The best micarta I've used is also the oldest, some old surplus military grade natural micarta, a guy I know had blocks 4'x4'x4" in his shop, had to be lifted with a chain host and plunge cut into chunks. It smells terrible when grinding or cutting, but is good strong stuff with no voids and takes a great finish.

If you want to completely re-assemble the handle:

If the fasteners are just pins, try freezing that knife overnight and then punching the pins out over a padded block. A thin chisel can be worked under the scales after the pins are out, once you have the edge opened up a little it will shear off- like splitting wood.

If a single chisel won't do it, the epoxy bond is pretty good - I've gone over by the bandsaw, below the table is an area that I intentionally don't clean- there are little wedge shaped cutoffs of metal and micarta that I find useful from time to time in the swarf pile. Take a few little metal wedges (hammer handle wedges would work, too) and use them in a line along the tang edge to open up a gap. At some point the scale will pop off clean. Re-freeze the knife to weaken the epoxy bond as necessary.

I've been able to take a tapered full tang hunter apart this way, re-ht the blade, and install the same liners, scales and mosaic pins cleanly again with only a little post finish work.

When you put it back together, rough everything out of sight really well with 120ish paper, wipe it off with a slightly damp cloth, and epoxy it back, paying attention to all details such as coating both sides of surfaces before bonding, and mixing equal parts epoxy good and thoroughly.
 
+1 for old Micarta... i found 3 large slabs of it in a bin at work a few years ago and its my favorite handle material. the slabs were 3'x3' by 1" and i assume they will probably save me hundreds over the years.

quick question... why is it super important to coat both surfaces with epoxy when you glue them together, doesn't the epoxy touch both once you squeeze it all together?
 
Thats a pretty small gap. The superglue idea will seal it. Given that it is micarta, it would take a long time for any issue to develop if you did get moisture in the gap.
Unless you are set up to do a full rehandle job, this would be the best idea. If you do end up taking the grips off to reglue, good luck getting everything to line back up.
If I have to take the scales off a knife, the next thing I do is cut out a fresh set of scales.
 
just another 2 cents... rather than go through all of the trouble of re handling a perfectly good knife because of a hariline gap, why not just get out there and use it? especially given that it's stainless, you arent likely going to have a huge issue with it for many years (if ever), and then if it does start to become a problem you can always rehandle the piece later on down the road.
 
rustyrazor said:
quick question... why is it super important to coat both surfaces with epoxy when you glue them together, doesn't the epoxy touch both once you squeeze it all together?
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Because it's better to "waste" some than to have gaps. I like to "butter up" one piece and smear it around/across the other, to make sure they both have a thin layer. Surface prep is far important than slathering on lots of epoxy... but extra adhesive doesn't hurt, you just wipe or sand it off the edges later.

In this case, I suspect it's much ado about very little. Seal up that small gap with CA as described earlier, and use the knife.
 
agreed... as per my last post, just use it, it's a knife.

I do the same thing. i make a huge mess and butter everything up really well before i assemble the knife, i was just wondering if it was required
 
Thanks for all of the advice guys!

I returned the knife, didn't want a $200 knife with no warranty that didn't start off as perfect.

I got this from Meyerco, it feels exactly the same, has the same steel, handle material, etc. but has a lifetime warranty:

CQB05.jpg
 
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