Michael Price San Francisco Dagger Help

[Travis Fry]

Hey everyone,

I'm planning a San Francisco style dagger or three in the relatively near future, but since I've never really seen one in person I have some questions about the construction.

Specifically:

-Is the guard typically one piece, or is it fabricated out of several pieces, or is it stacked out of several? Could go at it any of those ways, but I'd like to know what the originals were like. I intend to use sterling silver, if that matters.

-Similarly, on the Bradford dagger and some others, there's those large domed pins that look like they're 2 parts, and end up looking like a donut with a donut hole stuck on top. Again, not having seen one in person, none of the ways I can figure out to re-create the look make a lot of sense in historical context.

--And finally, the metal wraparound frame. Is this formed over a mandrel, fabricated from several pieces of silver via soldering, or what?

I realize this is a pretty obscure topic, but I'd like to pick the brain of some folks who have made these, or who have examined them up close. I can look at hi-res photos all day long, and I have the Bernard Levine book on the subject, but there's some questions only in-person examination can answer. I'm a pretty competent silversmith, so a lot of soldering doesn't scare me. I'm not necessarily committed to historically accurate construction either, but would like to at least be able to deviate from history with intent.

Thanks!

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

There are many styles of San Francisco and gold-field daggers. Post a photo of the type you bare planning.

 

[Travis Fry]

There are many styles of San Francisco and gold-field daggers. Post a photo of the type you bare planning.

Something like these, which copy the I.H. Bradford dagger shown below in the book.

 

[JV Knives]

My ASSUMPTION (you know what they say about that ) on the pins is that the dome is from peening and the ones that look like 2 pieces may have some type of spacer/washer over the pin and under the peened head. Sorry...no real historical reference, just my visual perception of the pics shown.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

The handle frames are made separately to fit the tang of the knife. The tang runs through the handle and is bolted or peened at the rear.
The frames probably have a wood filler with an overlay of the scale material.
The rivets have washers under a domed head.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Bill has it exactly. It is a jeweler's task to create one.

The rivets and washers were sometimes attached to each scale and did not go all the way through from side to side. The outer ones that would clear the tang might go through to hold the scales to the wooden core.

MOP was often used for the scales. I have seen them with ivory scales in African elephant and mammoth. Nicely colored mammoth was readily available from the artic gold miners.

The frames were usually soldered together from a top and bottom "harp", and the side piece shaped to fit a hardwood or iron handle form. (In a factory, the form was probably iron.) Once the assembled frame was fitted to the hardwood/iron copy of the handle it was bowed open, the form pulled out, and the handle put in it. Then it was closed down and the ends inserted into the bolster to lock it tight. If needed, some gentle tapping closed everything down tight to the scales.

 

[Travis Fry]

Bill has it exactly. It is a jeweler's task to create one.

The rivets and washers were sometimes attached to each scale and did not go all the way through from side to side. The outer ones that would clear the tang might go through to hold the scales to the wooden core.

MOP was often used for the scales. I have seen them with ivory scales in African elephant and mammoth. Nicely colored mammoth was readily available from the artic gold miners.

The frames were usually soldered together from a top and bottom "harp", and the side piece shaped to fit a hardwood or iron handle form. (In a factory, the form was probably iron.) Once the assembled frame was fitted to the hardwood/iron copy of the handle it was bowed open, the form pulled out, and the handle put in it. Then it was closed down and the ends inserted into the bolster to lock it tight. If needed, some gentle tapping closed everything down tight to the scales.

So the side frame was formed, not fabricated? Or both? I'm not sure what you mean by the "harp" description of the soldered part. I've seen Steve Culver form each side of the whole frame around a form, but I could see also forming the wider side frame and narrow "face" frame (the part on the flat with the handle material, for clarity) separately and soldering them together. And I'm still unclear about the construction of the bolster/guard. Is it stacked separate pieces? Cast from a wax mold? Filed from an ingot? And what about that little habaki looking thing? Is that part of the blade, or is that a separate piece of silver?

I think I've worked out a way to make the washers (closed jump rings, maybe 14-16ga?), and the domed rivets are no problem. I was planning to make them not go all the way through, and I appreciate the confirmation there.

Thanks for your feedback. These are all things I can do, but I also don't want to reinvent the wheel in the process.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

The frame is three pieces,
The top and bottom rims are cut out from sheet silver and often referred to as a harp. They are left oversize to allow trimming and filing after soldering.
The side frame is formed/shaped from sheet silver on a shaping mandrel or by hand.
The three pieces are then soldered together to make the complete frame.
This is filed and sanded to get the final shape. Engraving and such is done before final fitting of the handle/scales.

Soldering up jump rings would be a good way to make the washers.