Micro bevel help

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Cbaniak97

Joined
Mar 9, 2013
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Could someone explain to me what a micro bevel is? And why one would apply one to their blade?
I recently received a few Mora's and can't decide if I should put a micro bevel on them or not.
 
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Yes eventually a micro bevel would overtake the main edge (essentially a microbevel is the very very beginning of reprofiling an edge to a more obtuse angle). But since the microbevel should be very small, hence microbevel, it would take a very long time. A microbevel can be achieved with just 1 or 2 passes per side.

As to how to sharpen a microbevel on a mora, its exactly the same as on your case, just sharpen at a higher angle than the edge is already set to
 
No. Lets say you microbevel for years and years at 40 degrees. Once you hit the shoulder of the blade after wearing down your bevel you would still be at 40 degrees. Micro bevels are awesome. MB save steel because you dont have to sharpen the whole bevel each time your knife gets dull.
 
Cbaniak97 said:
I am going to order 2 mora companions today and have Been reading about them and people say to put a microbevel on them to make the stronger. I have done one micro bevel on my old case knife. But anyways I was wondering how do you sharpen a microbevel on a mora? And if you we're to keep sharpening the microbevel wouldn't it keep getting bigger and bigger? And when the microbevel gets big do you just restart and go back to the original grind? It just seems putting a microbevel on a knife is a waste of steel..... I really don't know a lot about microbevels. So could you guys give me some info? Lastly does anybody know what angle mora sharpens their knives?
Thanks
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Mora factory edge (on the ones I have bought) is approx 22-24 degrees if measured from the shoulder. They all had a subtle convex from the factory, so closer to 24-26 at the apex. Anyway, if you grind them flat from the shoulder they will most likely be too fragile an edge for good utility. That said, keeping it as close as possible to the flat Scandi profile will have the knife performing best both for green wood bushcrafting and utility use. A microbevel is OK, but you will want to regrind the back bevel nearly every time you touch it up, or the Scandi grind will not perform well. On mine I generally apply an extremely shallow convex, maybe a degree or so from shoulder to apex and this makes for a very strong edge yet still carves wood nicely and is thin enough for utility work.

As I see it - even on other grind types - sabre, flat, etc you will want to grind the back bevel frequently prior to repeatedly applying a microbevel. A relatively broad apex angle is OK if its an extremely small part of the cutting edge - as it gets larger (depends on how often you would need to touch up the edge), performance and longevity will degrade, considerably in some cases. When using microbevels, sooner or later one has to grind a fresh edge to the apex and restore the secondary bevel to a more acute angle, so sooner or later you'll have to remove all the steel you put off doing as you went. There is no net saving of steel, only a saving of time when its still small enough to quickly touch it up.

Additional consideration, they come in very handy for beefing up an edge that's been ground too thin.

There's a real good sticky at the top of the page "Microbevels" that has good info and insight.
 
HeavyHanded said:
Mora factory edge (on the ones I have bought) is approx 22-24 degrees if measured from the shoulder. They all had a subtle convex from the factory, so closer to 24-26 at the apex. Anyway, if you grind them flat from the shoulder they will most likely be too fragile an edge for good utility. That said, keeping it as close as possible to the flat Scandi profile will have the knife performing best both for green wood bushcrafting and utility use. A microbevel is OK, but you will want to regrind the back bevel nearly every time you touch it up, or the Scandi grind will not perform well. On mine I generally apply an extremely shallow convex, maybe a degree or so from shoulder to apex and this makes for a very strong edge yet still carves wood nicely and is thin enough for utility work.

As I see it - even on other grind types - sabre, flat, etc you will want to grind the back bevel frequently prior to repeatedly applying a microbevel. A relatively broad apex angle is OK if its an extremely small part of the cutting edge - as it gets larger (depends on how often you would need to touch up the edge), performance and longevity will degrade, considerably in some cases. When using microbevels, sooner or later one has to grind a fresh edge to the apex and restore the secondary bevel to a more acute angle, so sooner or later you'll have to remove all the steel you put off doing as you went. There is no net saving of steel, only a saving of time when its still small enough to quickly touch it up.

Additional consideration, they come in very handy for beefing up an edge that's been ground too thin.

There's a real good sticky at the top of the page "Microbevels" that has good info and insight.
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I have a too many questions. But you said " A microbevel is OK, but you will want to regrind the back bevel nearly every time you touch it up, or the Scandi grind will not perform well" you said this above. What do you mean by this? And why do you have to regrind the back bevel? Sorry I am kinda new to microbevels.
Thanks
 
Cbaniak97 said:
I have a too many questions. But you said " A microbevel is OK, but you will want to regrind the back bevel nearly every time you touch it up, or the Scandi grind will not perform well" you said this above. What do you mean by this? And why do you have to regrind the back bevel? Sorry I am kinda new to microbevels.
Thanks
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Scandi grind is basically two planes meeting at a fairly acute angle, but drawn out more broadly than other grinds. This shape helps out quite a bit when dealing with wood (like a wood chisel), and if kept at an acute angle where they meet it will work for utility use. It also has the advantage it can be maintained at the original geometry indefinitely as long as one grinds the entire bevel face. If one puts too much of a convex, or microbevels at a larger angle for too long, the cutting edge looses a great deal of efficiency because it has too much resistance relative to other grind types (sabre, flat) - it begins to have more in common with a hatchet than a knife. You'll notice over time that even a well-kept Scandi grind does not handle some chores well due to the extended back bevel. You'll also notice how well this grind handles working with wood. Use of a shallow convex or microbevel on a Scandi is generally just to toughen up the cutting edge - it hinders the blade geometry a little bit but allows one to use a more acute bevel overall.
 
I second all above, would like to add that a microbevel does not guaranty that you don't have a burr which you will have to remove to get a nice, clean, and - the reason you do this in the firts place - strong edge!!

Also, doing a microbevel, since the bevel is so micro, it is difficult to hit the same bevel again when "touching up" so you likely end up putting many different "facetts" on, although this probably does not matter much in terms of performance since it's micro.

Eventually, once the microbevel becomes a macrobevel (hmm, actually before your microbevel becomes a macrobevel ...), you will have to grind back to the original scandi bevel to maintain the performance advantage, the reason a scandi grind exists! Grinding it back to "flat" is not easy, takes time, you will have to go through all the grits etc. So, at the end, if you don't mind going through the process over and over again (depending how much you use your knife and have to sharpen it), a microbevel is ok but you will not be able to "just touch up" the main bevel to prevent the microbevel from coming closer to a macrobevel.
 
awestib said:
I second all above, would like to add that a microbevel does not guaranty that you don't have a burr which you will have to remove to get a nice, clean, and - the reason you do this in the firts place - strong edge!!

Also, doing a microbevel, since the bevel is so micro, it is difficult to hit the same bevel again when "touching up" so you likely end up putting many different "facetts" on, although this probably does not matter much in terms of performance since it's micro.

Eventually, once the microbevel becomes a macrobevel (hmm, actually before your microbevel becomes a macrobevel ...), you will have to grind back to the original scandi bevel to maintain the performance advantage, the reason a scandi grind exists! Grinding it back to "flat" is not easy, takes time, you will have to go through all the grits etc. So, at the end, if you don't mind going through the process over and over again (depending how much you use your knife and have to sharpen it), a microbevel is ok but you will not be able to "just touch up" the main bevel to prevent the microbevel from coming closer to a macrobevel.
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Ok now it is making more sense. But if the micro bevel were to turn into a "Macrobevel" and you wanted to go back the original grind it came with, would you just sharpen the blade at the angle of the original scandi grind to get rid of the "macrobevel"?
Thanks
 
Cbaniak97 said:
Ok now it is making more sense. But if the micro bevel were to turn into a "Macrobevel" and you wanted to go back the original grind it came with, would you just sharpen the blade at the angle of the original scandi grind to get rid of the "macrobevel"?
Thanks
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+2 on the exactly. The Scandi is presumably a design from the far north...the Sami people of the Arctic regions of Norway, Sweden, Finland, and even a little way into Russia I think. They lived for centuries not terribly unlike the plains Indians of North America. Except the Sami followed the reindeer instead of the Buffalo. Eventually they came to herd them rather than follow them. Very much unlike the Plains Indians, the Sami have had iron and steel tools for many centuries...but iron was always a scarce comodity. So they "invented" a very simple form generally called the Puukko. It had the Scandi grind to it. They would refine the main bevel when there was time to do so because it it a time consuming task. Out in the field or on the trail, for a quick touch up, on would (and still does) go the microbevel. A few strokes on a whetstone with the main bevel lifted ever so slightly and the blade was sharp again. As long as that micro bevel was small and did not hinder the use, it was left. At some point, it was back to the big stone and the full flat scandi bevel returned "to zero" ready to use.

The Mora is the modern extension of that technology. For most of mine, I go ahead and use a Spyderco Sharpmaker and set it at 30 and give the blade a very quick (and very micro) microbevel. I proceed just like the Sami presumably did and re-zero periodically.

When I first got into Moras and Scandis, I always went the full zero route. That's a laborious prospect even though the results were worth it. There is a middle ground. If I were carving wood, like for a living or full time, I would always go back to zero I think. Anything else, a microbevel will work great.
 
I usually give 10 - 15 strokes on the original bevel then 4 - 5 strokes on the micro bevel when I sharpen my Moras. Unless I am in a hurry.
 
It should. If you are sharpening it multiple times per day check it occaisionally. With the light behind you, look for the slightest glint of reflection along both sides of the edge. It shouldn't be any thicker than the thickness of a hair. Thinner is OK. If it starts getting thicker then add more strokes while working on the original bevel.
 
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