Microscoping the stock Becker edge.

T

ThePointyEnd

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Aug 14, 2011
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Due to interesting happenstance, my house currently contains one stock edged BK-24 D'eskabar, used only for pressing sheaths, and one near stock edged BK-15 used for pressing sheathes and cutting snacks. also, I have all kinds of razor blades as I'm into the whole DE and straight shaving thing.

What I've done here is to take pics comparing the three at different magnifications, the conclusions I drew were one thing, but I suppose A picture is worth more than my words.

A quick note on the apparatus: I used a lens out of a laser pointer and press fit it into a piece of wood that I tape over my phone's camera lens. it's probably not as clear as some methods, but it's significantly cheaper and more accessible. My phone has a 4x zoom. I took one pic at each magnification as best as I could while shining a flashlight onto the edge of a knife I was wrangling and still take a picture of. --I'm not a great photographer, and due to the cheap plastic lens, it's a little out of focus at the edges, but this should prove interesting.

Now to the fun part, THE PICS !!!!!!!!!!

BK-24 at stock magnification:
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BK-24 at "4X":
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BK-15 at stock magnification:
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BK-15 at "4X": the lighting is a little strong, but the scratch pattern is what we're after here
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DE blade at stock magnification:
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DE blade at "4x":
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The thing I took home is just how similar the scratch patterns are (similar grit), the main difference to my eye is that the DE blade has a clear back bevel (seen here as the not quite as scratchy part) and microbevel (seen here as the darker part at the very edge). The stock Becker edge seems to have slightly deeper scratches than the razor blade, accounting for the more "toothy" edge. I don't see a reason a microbevel and some stropping wouldn't create a visually similar edge, but I'm not an expert.

We must also consider the striking difference in stock thickness here: The BK-24 pictured measures 0.164" at the fat part of the ricasso, the BK-15 clocks in at 0.186" with coating at the fat part of the ricasso, and the DE blade at just 0.00035"

I had fun doing this, hope you had fun seeing it, and I'll welcome any comments, questions I can figure out or pics of your own edges !!!
 
Nice camera hack, Pointy! I'm nearsighted enough that when I'm wearing my glasses, all I hafta do for 3x magnification is take them off and hold the edge real close to my good eye. Haven't even taken of the end of my nose yet. How about stropping that 24 and taking some more pics? Still pretty cool seeing where the individual grit took steel off. Shaving sharp outta the box? Not for me, ever.
 
Those are pretty awesome. I'm wondering what the 15 would look like without the coating.
 
That's pretty slick man. I dig the cheap camera trick, you're a lot smarter than I. Check your email.
 
My sharpest Beckers are sharpened at a 30 degree inclusive edge with a 40 degree back bevel.
Sharpened on my Spyderco Sharpmaker with diamond, medium, fine, and then a mirror edge with the ultra fine rods.
 
granitestateofmind said:
How about stropping that 24 and taking some more pics? Still pretty cool seeing where the individual grit took steel off. Shaving sharp outta the box? Not for me, ever.
Click to expand...
Thought I might work on something like that as time allows, and there's always a new level of sharp to be found; at least until the knife's shadow can cut :D

Tdhurl1103 said:
Those are pretty awesome. I'm wondering what the 15 would look like without the coating.
Click to expand...
I'm in no hurry to strip this one, but I'll dig around for something similar in my collection; but my guess says it looks real close to the 24.
 
Great photos. Very interesting and thanks for the camera hack.
 
Jonny1280 said:
My sharpest Beckers are sharpened at a 30 degree inclusive edge with a 40 degree back bevel.
Sharpened on my Spyderco Sharpmaker with diamond, medium, fine, and then a mirror edge with the ultra fine rods.
Click to expand...

I thought it was the other way around. 30 degree back bevel with a 40 degree edge. I also use the sharpmaker on my bk11. I just use the 40 degree now. It is slow bit I can get it to shave my arms.
How long does it take you to sharpen?
 
Here is a pic taken in a similar manner of the edge of my BK16 (saber grind) that is my main user, as well as some interesting pics of the flats with the patina.

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Thanks Derek. This thread is really interesting......it's a shame it doesn't get more feedback. :(
 
neat pix.
I'd definitely expect user-sharpened edges to show the finer finish like Derek's blade.
The black edge-edge on the razor is odd. Looks like a heat effect, but SO consistent that I disbelieve it. Do those razors seem to hold an edge better the longer you use and sharpen them? What's 'DE' anyway?
 
Finally caught a moment to get back to this line of experimentation... Must've been a really interesting distraction.

@ Daizee: everything I've seen supports your theory about user edges refining the stock over time and sharpening cycles, but I realize that each user's edge is VERY much a variable...
DE= Double Edge razor blade, think old school gillette, so they are disposable. I notice a definite "break in" period with them as they are quite aggressive for me the first few shaves, then they get slowly duller until they get trashed. I think the one photo'd is made of AEB-L or something similar and relatively high Rc. IIRC, the "how it's made" on them shows a three grind, liquid cooled process; apparently step 3 is finer than my rig can see but big enough for the face to tell.

@Td: The closest two I have to a nekked BK-15 are my BK-9 and BK-16... The '9 has been stropped slightly convex and used heavily enough to wear the coating away from the edge. The BK-16 has long ago been stripped and gets used for everything and has had some *major* edge work done. but both should give a look at the transition from the grind on the flat to the edge bevel and so forth. (I guess that's what you're after)

BK-9 at 1x-- you can still see a bit of the factory bevel grind's scratch pattern (I think) then you can see it smooth out about 2/3 the way to the edge from the shoulder.
12053965374_fce37efbfb_c.jpg


BK-9 at "4x" this is a look at a chopper that will shave. I believe the same transition is still visible.
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BK-16 at "1x" you can see the flat grind clearly, and then the smooooooth convex my alternate cycles of use and TLC have produced. Also, there's some bonus pitting... she is very much a user.
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Same edge, In close enough to see a scratch pattern('4x'), the giant more out of focus bits of white are dust. Guess I should dust my edge first next time. :D
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Sorry for any out-of-focusness; I am no photographer, and these photos are a dynamic balancing process of holding a knife, flashlight, and cellphone and positioning all three with precision and all before my coffee in this case.
I have a few more edges to photo that I'll prolly forget to do for another two weeks or so, lol.
 
Cool Image , I have a microscopic. I am going to try and get a pic from it.
Deep down we're kind of a nerdy bunch.
 
The1trueBeavis said:
Very cool indeed. How did you think of the camera hack? Might have to try this sometime myself.
Click to expand...

Derek mentioned that he saw somebody do it somewhere, so I grabbed a $3 special laser pointer I had laying around with dead batteries that cost more to replace than a new laser pointer and ripped the lens out (it was epoxied) then drilled a hole in a piece of wood and press fit the lens in. Taped that to the cellphone camera and got a good look at what was going on . By that time, it seemed like the whole internet was doing it.

If you have an old laser pointer laying around, and a cellphone you don't mind taping stuff to then I recommended it. Could give you some info on a few edges and about 1000 other uses. Couldn't get the trick to work with a jewler's loupe or with a real camera, but ymmv.
 
Great pictures!
I'd love the see the setup used for making these :)
 
granitestateofmind said:
Nice camera hack, Pointy! I'm nearsighted enough that when I'm wearing my glasses, all I hafta do for 3x magnification is take them off and hold the edge real close to my good eye. Haven't even taken of the end of my nose yet. How about stropping that 24 and taking some more pics? Still pretty cool seeing where the individual grit took steel off. Shaving sharp outta the box? Not for me, ever.
Click to expand...

I thought at first by nearsighted you were discussing your myopic views on life.
 
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