Microtech Select Fire auto in Tennessee?

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fsqridah

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Hi all. My fiancée and I recently moved to Nashville, TN from Lexington, KY. In Kentucky, I was able to legally carry a Protech Emerson CQC-7 auto with a Kentucky CCDW license. However, after doing some light research on TN knife laws, it's pretty clear that automatics are defined as being prohibited, and a violation of that particular subsection is (I believe)a class E felony. My question is this: since I can no longer carry my Protech, I have been looking at the Microtech Select Fire. While the dual action is an auto, if I were to use the lockout feature and disengage the automatic mode, would the knife still be considered a switchblade? Normally I would just get the manual, but I have a strong appreciation for automatic knives, based on the technology and craftsmanship that goes into building them. This could possibly fall into the collective purposes exception, but would require the knife be left at home. My guess would be that having it locked out would make it useless an automatic to anyone other than me, and most LEOs and anyone else would not label the knife as an auto, and wouldn't even know it can be configured as an auto. Should I ask a metro officer about it? Because based on the ambiguity of the laws, it seems that in most cases, how the law is interpreted is up to the officer. I should also note that I do not engage in any activity that would draw attention from police officers. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. I would love to get the auto version, but not if it will potentially get me into trouble.

edit: Reposted in knife law forum. Moderators please feel free to delete this thread if deemed necessary.
 
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Hi all. My fiancée and I recently moved to Nashville, TN from Lexington, KY. In Kentucky, I was able to legally carry a Protech Emerson CQC-7 auto with a Kentucky CCDW license. However, after doing some light research on TN knife laws, it's pretty clear that automatics are defined as being prohibited, and a violation of that particular subsection is (I believe)a class E felony. My question is this: since I can no longer carry my Protech, I have been looking at the Microtech Select Fire. While the dual action is an auto, if I were to use the lockout feature and disengage the automatic mode, would the knife still be considered a switchblade? Normally I would just get the manual, but I have a strong appreciation for automatic knives, based on the technology and craftsmanship that goes into building them. This could possibly fall into the collective purposes exception, but would require the knife be left at home. My guess would be that having it locked out would make it useless an automatic to anyone other than me, and most LEOs and anyone else would not label the knife as an auto, and wouldn't even know it can be configured as an auto. Should I ask a metro officer about it? Because based on the ambiguity of the laws, it seems that in most cases, how the law is interpreted is up to the officer. I should also note that I do not engage in any activity that would draw attention from police officers. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. I would love to get the auto version, but not if it will potentially get me into trouble.
 
Would not rely on Officer discretion or interpretations.

In my limited experience weapons charges are usually but not always included offenses..that is you were stopped and/or arrested for something else and in that process a weapon was discovered and that is then charged in the arrest documentation along with the primary charge/reason. It may or may not be prosecuted but the arresting officer does not make that call.

Akin but not the same as letting a DUI slide because he or she is one(1) mile from home - if they kill or injure themselves or another on the way there, the officer is an accomplice at best..same with firearms..could have just been used as a murder weapon. "Protect and serve" also applies to LE as well as general populations.

Another observation, not all LEO's are knowledgeable about guns or knives - some are, some aren't.

Lived in Memphis 80-93, great State, lot of good people BUT the best duckhunting is still in Arkansas...well TN waterfowl is better than FL...can't eat seagulls.

Best.
 
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A dual action automatic is still an automatic knife. If the police officer was able to figure out that the select fire was an auto he could very well arrest you for it. Even an automatic knife that has the spring removed is still considered an auto even if its not working properly. For someone in your situation I would recommend leaving the autos in the home if you decide to keep them and maybe think of switching to a Spring assisted knife or even better a bearing operated flipping folder. Autos are great fun but they aint worth going to jail over. And even though autos are cool, how cool is it that we now posses the technology to develop knives that are just as fast without the aid of a spring to begin with. here is a short list of knives that have no spring or torsion bar and flip very smooth and fast due to the bearing pivot system

1. Zero Tolerance 0560. Amazing hinderer designed flipper. Elmax blade, Ti frame lock
2. Kershaw Tilt. Another amazing knife but with an odd blade shape
3. CRKT Nirk Tigh. Exposed frame design with a neat lock mech
4. CRKT Ripple. Design by ken onion. Available in a steel handle frame lock or cheaper aluminum liner lock 2 sizes
5. CRKT Eros. another onion design. More of a slicer. Acuto steel blade and Ti frame lock.
6. CRKT Sampa. Designed by a founder of the IKBS pivot system Flavio Ikoma. Aluminum liner lock


IMHO the best of all of these are the ZT and kershaw. But the CRKT are very nice lower cost alternatives.
 
Thanks for the replies. Point is fully taken on the auto rule. And you're right, it's not worth going to jail over. I normally like assisted openers. My last folder before the Protech was a ZT0301, my fiancée carries a Benchmade Mini Barrage, and I got her Dad an HK Nitrous Blitz for Christmas. I like assisted openers for the same reason as autos, but I'm really set on the Microtech. I carried a Scarab for a short while and the craftsmanship was superb, although I really had no practical use for it.

But anyway, definitely going to go with the manual version. I might sell my Protech to a guy I know in Kentucky, but if I keep it, it stays at home. Thanks again.
 
fsqridah said:
...While the dual action is an auto, if I were to use the lockout feature and disengage the automatic mode, would the knife still be considered a switchblade? ...
Click to expand...

Extremely gray. Odds are, of course, that you'd never be brought to bear on any knife unless you attracted attention for some other issue, but since you're not gonna carry it with auto mode activated, why add the possibility of legal probs? There are lots of nice knives out there, and auto assisted are just as fast -- and legal.

Btw, switchblade/knuckles is a Class A Misdemeanor, not felony. You'd lose handgun carry permit for duration of sentence though.

- OS
 
The Select Fire at the time of this writing is untested waters from a legal standpoint, so anything you hear from me or anyone else, even an officer of your state, is purely speculation.

Just a quick correction, that possession of a switchblade is a Class A misdemeanor, not a felony (see last line 39-17-1302. Prohibited weapons)

From what I know of switchblade caselaw, there have been occasions where a "kit" to make a auto or convert a knife into an auto have been treated the same as selling an auto in and of itself. There is state caselaw where an auto with a broken mechanism was still ruled to be an illegal auto. That said, your average officer discovering a Select Fire probably will not know what it is or have any idea that it can be switched to an auto, much less how. It is even possible that if you were arrested on unrelated charges and the knife confiscated incident to arrest, that it would escape notice of what it really is. But there is always a risk. You may get the one cop in the state who is a MicroTech fanatic and knows what it is instantly. Hey, it happens. Some guys on this forum are cops, and cops often have access to MicroTechs when other folk of their state can't.

What I'm saying is, it's a gamble. It's a calculated risk only you can decide on.

Granted, I would agree to an extent that if you don't have a tendency to get the police's attention, you'll never be searched in the first place. I've never been searched by the cops or been in a position where I would have to show what I'm carrying in 20 years of packing all kinds of sharp objects.
 
I've never been searched either. Granted, I'm probably younger than a lot of the users here, but the point being that I don't do things to attract unwanted attention from law enforcement. OhShoot makes a very valid point regarding why get an auto if it's not going to be used as an auto and could still cause problems?

The way I see it, I would feel a little better knowing that my knife well definitely not get me into trouble. But consider this:

I carry a knife for utility reasons; however I would not hesitate to use it as a defensive means if necessary. So let's pretend that I was attacked while walking to my car from work, and as a last ditch effort, used my Microtech auto to fight my attacker who dies from his wounds. His family wants the state to charge me with murder or first degree manslaughter. In example A, I am found not guilty (ruled self defense) and acquitted of all charges. In this example, my Microtech was not recognized by the jury as am auto (prohibited weapon with a class A misdemeanor offense). In example B, everything is identical, but my Microtech is recognized as an auto, prompting a class A misdemeanor charge. Would that offense have the potential to influence the jury's decision to rule in self defense? By itself, a class A misdemeanor isn't THAT big of a deal, but is it possible that that particular violation could cause the jury that I did not acct in self defense, and possibly tack on a felony conviction? Basically, I'm asking if having the auto version could get me into more trouble than the single violation itself.
 
It my experience, it could bend a jury's opinion, or it might not. Depends if the judge and your lawyer are doing their job. Technically speaking, the jury should be instructed that the means you used are completely irrelevant to the justifiability of the killing; that it wouldn't matter if you used a microtech or a piece of flatware of the table. Some of that also depends on how much the prosecutor decides to harp on that angle of it. Most self-defense case get hung up on a specific matter of dispute, and it usually has nothing to do with the specific type weapon used (when the force it is capable of is the same).

Granted, justifiable use of a knife in self-defense is rare. I have read a stack of defensive stabbing cases, and only two resulted in an acquittal. Both cases involved the attacker knocking the defendant to the ground and pinning them down, and in both cases the defendant was in their own home or place of business. It is also worth noting that in all but one, the defendant knew or was acquainted with the attacker well before the fatal altercation. As is the case of most violent crime.
 
See, that surprises me about the extremely low number of acquittals. I can't see how a jury is more likely to convict a defendant of a violent crime who used a knife in self defense than a GUN. Even today, most ppl that comprise a jury panel rarely know anything about guns, and think they're these ultimate killing machines as portrayed in movies. I'm not questioning your statement, but I do question whether or not you could reasonably compare self defense cases (knife versus gun and acquittal rates).
 
Actually I wasn't comparing to guns at all. I have not read that many defensive gun use cases that made it as far as court.

But I need to clarify something too: If you are actually standing trial because you killed a person, there is already at least some evidence the killing was not justifiable. In cases where self-defense was clear-cut, the person is not even arrested and charged in the first place.

What I think is going on here is that there are variables that are separate from what a jury perceives about weapons. In the cases I read, the attacker who was stabbed and killed was unarmed. This tends to be the majority of stabbings in general. Boiled down, this is lethal force against an unarmed person. If you think about it, shooting an unarmed person wouldn't go much better in court either. Now, if your attacker has a gun, that's the proverbial "bringing a knife to a gun fight." And if both of you have knives, that's almost as dangerous. I have never seen a knife-against-knife self-defense case in court cases, but have seen a few when I worked near the ER. Usually both people ended up dead.

Of course there are plenty of anecdotes people can tell about scaring an unarmed aggressor away with a knife. No denying that works, I've even done it myself. Because no one gets hurt, it rarely results in the knife-user being prosecuted, if the incident is even reported to the police in the first place. But it gets messy of the attacker is crazy/calls your bluff. In Thornton v. Maryland this happened, where one teen wanted to fight and the other who had a pocket knife did not. The teen with the knife (Thornton) even brandished it, saying to get back. Other guy called his bluff, got stabbed in the leg and died. Thornton got Murder 2 and 6 years in prison.
 
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