"Middle Ground" Lockback?

W

Will Leavitt

Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Messages
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Starting a new thread because Coop made a comment that piqued my curiousity since I'm working on some folders in my shop.

What do you mean by "middle ground"? I'm curious about materials and pricing. Obviously nice stainless, mokume or damascus fittings, is a SS blade required, would a carbon blade with a 2000 hand rubbed finish be acceptable? (I'm a bladesmith so I'm not so stainless friendly) What price range do you consider "middle ground"?

Just kinda curious about the definition of this term.

Thanks,
Will
formerly known as badbamaump
 
I'm by no means a folder expert, however from my observations of handmade folders strictly from a pricing prospective would go like this:

lower end - $300-$750
middle ground - $800-$2500
high end - $2550-$7500
super high end - $7500-$15000
crazy - $15000+
 
Hi guys,

Everyone has their own level concerning what would be middle ground. I am thinking that a 'middle ground' quality folder is for EDC usage and possible hard use (OK, so it's a tactical lockback... :)) That said, could it be made for $450-$650?

Mokume? Damascus? Not MG to me. What about a titanium lockback? Hmmmm. I own a great micarta lockback by Dick Atckinson that was sold NEW for less than $200. That's LOW end, and what a market he cornered.

Don't need to make it an interframe either. Bolsters and scales work.

Bottom line: Would it sell? Well, that's another consideration. But, while everyone else is creating the framelock of the month, maybe someone else can think outside the box.

I'm still listening....

Coop
 
My middle range would be about the same as Coop's. Somewhere in the $500.00 to $750.00 range.

Would have to have a top quality steel. Stainless would not be a requirement for me. Neither would a 2000 grit finish. 1000 would be fine. At the $500.00 end, Micarta and nice woods would work. At $750.00 I would want to see higher end handle materials like stag. The most important things for me would be a smooth action, tight tolerances, and very good fit and finish.
 
SharpByCoop said:
Hi guys,

Everyone has their own level concerning what would be middle ground. I am thinking that a 'middle ground' quality folder is for EDC usage and possible hard use (OK, so it's a tactical lockback... :)) That said, could it be made for $450-$650?

Mokume? Damascus? Not MG to me. What about a titanium lockback?
Click to expand...

That sounds like the knife I've been looking for for a a while now. Nice handmade tactical lockbacks seem to be tough to find.

What I would REALLY like to see is fairly inexspensive lockbacks built similar to knives made by Spyderco. Just G10 handles or or perhaps inlaid liners to help reinforce.
 
SAR said:
Strike while the irons hot

Spencer
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Not so worried about the iron being hot as to what people want. How many more hunting knives can I forge and sell? How many more of my wharnie edcs? I have plenty of people that buy, use and love my fixed blades, why not expose another segment of the knife buying populace to my wares?

Will
formerly known as badbamaump
 
dylan_d said:
That sounds like the knife I've been looking for for a a while now. Nice handmade tactical lockbacks seem to be tough to find.

What I would REALLY like to see is fairly inexspensive lockbacks built similar to knives made by Spyderco. Just G10 handles or or perhaps inlaid liners to help reinforce.
Click to expand...


Not sure if you would consider this tactical but how about something like this, by Bob Dozier

cimg0027dz5.jpg
 
rugbymatt said:
Not sure if you would consider this tactical but how about something like this, by Bob Dozier

cimg0027dz5.jpg
Click to expand...

That's pretty much dead on. I'd like to get one but I don't see them listed on his website as being a model he is still producing.
 
dylan_d said:
That's pretty much dead on. I'd like to get one but I don't see them listed on his website as being a model he is still producing.
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I know that this model is a 2005, but you still see them for sale second hand. I got lucky and got this that way.
 
For me, knives like that Dozier but in the $350-$550 range would be nice. Nothing too fancy, just a nice working knife with the quality of being handmade (oh, no- I didn't mean to use that word!)

A couple that Steven mentioned in another thread are, I think, perfect examples of what Coop was referring to- the R.J. Martin Havoc and the J.W. Smith Evolution.

Also, thanks to Coop and Keith for their definition of mid-range, Kevin hurt my feelings. So far my most expensive folder was only $725- low range- ouch!
 
That Dozier Titanium is a great example of a knife of this style. Looks well made (Like all Doziers.) I do not care for the blasted finish on it, though. One contact with a pocket full of coins or keys and it's scarred notably.

Blasted ti finishes, although they look clean when new, and are easy to produce, are really a fragile finish for an EDC.

That's why my Atckinson micarta lockback is so enduring. The finish is nearly indecipherable when used.

Thinking out loud: A brushed finish, with knife even supplied with a piece of 3M cloth for touch-ups? Hmmmmmmm.

Coop
 
thombrogan said:
I have one of your wharnies in 1084 with cocobolo scales and two leather sheaths (for lefties and righties). Are you going to be making any lockbacks in 1080/1084?
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Hiya Thom,
How's that knife working for you? I've moved so if it needs any touching up email me and I can send you my new addy.

Yes I'm planning on lockbacks in 1080. I've always been fascinated by them, my first knife was a Case lock back. I've got a neat sketch of a lockback with a semi-wharnie/spear point blade with what I think is a really nice flow from tip to butt. When I get all the bugs worked out to my satisfaction I'll be doing a passaround on it.

Titanium??? sigh....as if stainless wasn't bad enough lol.

Will
formerly known as badbamaump
 
Will Leavitt said:
Hiya Thom,
How's that knife working for you? I've moved so if it needs any touching up email me and I can send you my new addy.

Yes I'm planning on lockbacks in 1080.
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Works great, thanks!

Lockbacks in 1080 are what the world needs. Would running the blades in them harder and thinner than your EDC wharnies work or would that risk making the knife too brittle for most of your customers? No need for titanium on my part.
 
Will Leavitt said:
Hiya Thom,
How's that knife working for you? I've moved so if it needs any touching up email me and I can send you my new addy.

Yes I'm planning on lockbacks in 1080. I've always been fascinated by them, my first knife was a Case lock back. I've got a neat sketch of a lockback with a semi-wharnie/spear point blade with what I think is a really nice flow from tip to butt. When I get all the bugs worked out to my satisfaction I'll be doing a passaround on it.

Titanium??? sigh....as if stainless wasn't bad enough lol.

Will
formerly known as badbamaump
Click to expand...

Gott any pictures to show us of the blade style? sounds pretty dam cool

Spencer
 
Urghhhh Thom.... much sleeker blade design than that. I've evolved a bit stylisticly (well I think so) lol

1080 is pretty tough in thin cross sections but thin+hard=broken lol I could try going up a little bit on rc hardness but I worry about getting the edge becoming too brittle. The blade is only 3/32 or 1/8 at the tang and it gets pointy fast.

Thom, you think there'd be interest in a passaround and raffle on a lockback? I'll let you pick out the handle material. I'm going traditional and using a black linen micarta since it'll have a SS bolster. You can choose though, I'll give you power over handle material for the passaround lol

I spent nearly 17 years in the Army before the medical board got me and I've never been clear on what people consider "tactical." Do you mean blacked out finish, stabby or styling like a SPAS-12 shotgun where you realize instantly that this tool serves as an instant problem solver? I like Dozier's knives but I would consider that more "utilitarian" than "tactical." For years I carried an SOG bowie on my battle rattle, it didn't look very "tactical" by todays standards but I assure that it served it's purpose. (NO, I'm not claiming to have ever used a knife in anger.)

Will
formerly known as badbamaump
 
Will Leavitt said:
much sleeker blade design than that. I've evolved a bit stylisticly (well I think so) lol
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Pictures would be cool, then, if you can share. Sorry for nabbing the old school pic.

Will Leavitt said:
1080 is pretty tough in thin cross sections but thin+hard=broken lol I could try going up a little bit on rc hardness but I worry about getting the edge becoming too brittle. The blade is only 3/32 or 1/8 at the tang and it gets pointy fast.
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Depends on how it's used. With two exceptions, all of my kitchen knives are made from thin, hard steel and the paring knife flexes instead of breaks or taking a set (thin+hard+care=A-Okay).

Will Leavitt said:
Thom, you think there'd be interest in a passaround and raffle on a lockback?
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Absolutely! You should see the things we harrass poor Mr. Glesser for involving carbon steels and lockbacks! Um, maybe you shouldn't :o But I think a lot of us are looking for a lockback with a carbon steel blade. There's a lot more people looking for the next coolest stainless with a titanium framelock, but I'm not one of them and not alone in that regard.

Will Leavitt said:
I'll let you pick out the handle material. I'm going traditional and using a black linen micarta since it'll have a SS bolster. You can choose though, I'll give you power over handle material for the passaround lol
Click to expand...

Black linen sounds great to me. Any linen micarta works for me.

Will Leavitt said:
I spent nearly 17 years in the Army before the medical board got me and I've never been clear on what people consider "tactical."
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If the backlock is about midway between the top and bottom of the handle and the knife can be opened with one hand (either hand) without a thumbstud that gets in the way of sharpening, I don't care what it's called - I'll just hope to win the raffle.

Thanks, Will!
 
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