might not be a great idea to abandon your gear

[mtwarden]

second story down, doesn't sound like the best idea to me to abandon your shelter and pack

http://www.sespesun.com/

it reinforces my mindset that while I may never purposely abandon my pack, having some very basic provisions on your person might be prudent in that rare instance when you find yourself separated from your pack

 

[kgd]

I agree. Increasing your mobility at the expense of your gear impromptu would be incredibly unwise. Doing so to scale a steep ridgeline seems a bit Bear Gryllus like to me. But I wasn't there and I hate getting on the 'blame the victim' bandwagon.

 

[Thomas Linton]

It was quickly determined that many of these missing individuals were all associated with a professional hiking group - the “Los Padres Sierra Club.”

Note the use of irony - perhaps sarcasm.

 

[PDE]

These stories spring up all the time, unfortunately.
I am sure they will learn from their mistakes next time,
I hope we can take something away from this as well.

Most importantly, always carry a PSK and understand and master basic survival skills.

Did anyone notice the ages of the victims?

Mostly in their fifties and sixties. You would think the majority would have been in their
twenties and teens, early thirties maybe.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Liability Waiver

All participants on Sierra Club outings are required to sign a standard liability waiver. If you would like to read the liability waiver before you chose to participate on an outing, refer to the national Sierra Club web site or contact the Outings department at (415) 977-5630 for a printed version.

I grew up in Socal. It was axiomatic that it was unwise to go up into the steep cantons of the hills if significant rain was predicted or probable. Most 11-year-old Scouts could tell you exactly why (If they wanted to pass Second Class, they had to be able to do so. It was covered under the rubric of "rules of safety.")

 

[Brutane]

Not really...most of the people in the hiking clubs around here are in their 50's, 60's, and 70's. I think it's because the folks like myself (30's) tend to go with our families whereas the people in the slightly older age groups have kids who have gotten to the late teens and college age and have stopped going with their parents, so their parents seek out like minded people to do outdoors stuff with.

 

[PDE]

Not really...most of the people in the hiking clubs around here are in their 50's, 60's, and 70's. I think it's because the folks like myself (30's) tend to go with our families whereas the people in the slightly older age groups have kids who have gotten to the late teens and college age and have stopped going with their parents, so their parents seek out like minded people to do outdoors stuff with.

I was talking more of on an experience level.

The benefit of aging is gaining wisdom.

I don't think any of those rescued were all that wise,
even if most rescued were a little older.

We, as humans, tend to be a little more reckless/careless at earlier
stages of our lives.

Only after we make a mistake do we realize that it was not too good of an
idea in the first place.

I hope you understand, it is sometimes difficult to get a point across
through typing.

 

[Bo T]

Since news stories are usually sensationalized, it is hard to tell badly the groups screwed up in going on the overnighter. I've had friends who have unexpectedly been caught in high winds or bad storms.

The 4 who abandoned their gear and crossed the stream did make a serious error. It seems that they should have looked for a protected area and tried to weather the storm.

 

[collecter]

second story down, doesn't sound like the best idea to me to abandon your shelter and pack

http://www.sespesun.com/

it reinforces my mindset that while I may never purposely abandon my pack, having some very basic provisions on your person might be prudent in that rare instance when you find yourself separated from your pack

I would not leave my pack but I might lighten it by removing the non-essential items.

I feel the same about what I own and how I live. I keep things simple, have one good quality item instead of several lower quality items and I try to keep the sentimental things to a minimum. I had to evacuate my house several times in recent years. I live in California. Several wildfires and this last tsunami warning wasn't a big deal but still made me think. Live and travel light and smart.

 

[AeroNautiCal]

This really beggars belief!

It was quickly determined that many of these missing individuals were all associated with a professional hiking group - the “Los Padres Sierra Club.”

...with each group being led by a Sierra Club “team leader”...

At about 11:00 p.m., SAR members made contact with (4) four of the missing Sierra Club members – all of whom were in a very precarious situation. The four members explained that they had experienced heavy rains all night on Saturday night, so they set out first thing Sunday morning to try and make it out of the backcountry. As they tried to hike out, the four individuals found that they were no longer able to cross the water crossings, so they abandoned their tents and backpacks and attempted to scale a ridgeline to make it to Hwy 33. They soon became very tired and very cold.

The Ojai and East Valley SAR Teams had to rig safety lines across the water crossings, as well as a waterfall, and then secure each individual in a harness system in order to pull them safely across the dangerous water and steep terrain. All four Sierra Club members were suffering from exposure to the cold and were subsequently transported by ambulance to a local hospital. During the rescue efforts, one SAR member received minor injuries that required later treatment at a local Urgent Care facility.

Their reckless endangerment of themselves further endangered the SAR crews.

 

[jackknife]

The keystone to this entire boondogle is that they kept on in the face of an incoming storm, hiking into canyon country with multible stream crossings.

If you have a backpacking trip planed, wouldn't you keep an eye on the weather?

And this does not say much for the so called Sierra Club team leaders. Again, the fallacy of putting your well being into someone elses hands because of so called credentials. I've seen too many educated idiots in my life, not to trust to my own common sense.

Carl.

 

[kgd]

The keystone to this entire boondogle is that they kept on in the face of an incoming storm, hiking into canyon country with multible stream crossings.

If you have a backpacking trip planed, wouldn't you keep an eye on the weather?

And this does not say much for the so called Sierra Club team leaders. Again, the fallacy of putting your well being into someone elses hands because of so called credentials. I've seen too many educated idiots in my life, not to trust to my own common sense.

Carl.

I agree, the decision to keep on in heavy rain was a poor one, albeit the swelling of the stream might not have been an anticipated consequence. I think most of us would just figure we could weather a heavy rain event as long as we could get to high ground which they probably had. Their problem was they seemed to forget about the river crossings.

It would seem much more sensible to wait things out a couple of days in my comfy shelter until I verified the stream subsided sufficiently, or at least figure if there was an alternative to the crossing. I imagine they had credible maps so their decision was based on more information than I have.

To Aeronautical - why do you think these folks endangangered SAR teams? Because the SAR suffered some minor injuries in trying to do the very thing they volunteered for? The SAR seemed to have acted in a wonderfully professional manner and got the job done. Also the group made some poor decisions, but these decisions were not associated with purposely exploring dangerous places. Whats with the victim hate?

 

[Brian Sargent]

I've been hiking these exact spots for over 25 years. We really don't get a lot of rain each year. All of the creeks and streams in that area dry up or slow to a trickle in summer. There are a few ridges approaching 7,000' and most are above 5,000' that create the canyons that these groups were hiking in. The trails are very steep and when wet are slippery clay. Flash floods are very common during heavy rain. The creek beds are narrow and full of boulders so the water gets deep and swift. We have had a ton of rain in this area for the year.

In my opinion the leaders of these groups couldn't have been experienced in the areas that they took these groups. We have had near record rains and there is no way that I would be on those trails in the current conditions.

They started off bad just by getting out of their cars. Leaving their gear behind when they needed it most shows that they panicked. They were in a pretty serious wilderness area.

This video shows two seasonal waterfalls flowing into the Sespe. That water is from one good storm. They are dry during summer.

[youtube]Zrctogf-uFg[/youtube]

 

[bulgron]

It can be very difficult for people to turn back on a planned trip. They set a goal and don't let anything get in their way of pursuing that goal.

Read "Deep Survival" by Laurence Gonzales. He talks a lot about the psychology that leads people to go places where they really shouldn't go.

As for dropping your pack ... always a bad idea. When I was a kid I heard a story about 3 hikers in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area (BWCA) in northern MN. They were on the last day of their trip and they were trying to get back to their car when a storm blew in on them. So they dropped their packs and ran for the car. None survived.

Thinking that you need to drop your pack and run is a good sign that you're suffering from panic and aren't thinking clearly. When that happens, it's better to just hunker down and get a grip before deciding what your next move should be.

 

[Brutane]

I was talking more of on an experience level.

The benefit of aging is gaining wisdom.

I don't think any of those rescued were all that wise,
even if most rescued were a little older.

We, as humans, tend to be a little more reckless/careless at earlier
stages of our lives.

Only after we make a mistake do we realize that it was not too good of an
idea in the first place.

I hope you understand, it is sometimes difficult to get a point across
through typing.

Oh....now I got it! I understand now, but I am also frequently misunderstood through my typed posts.