Mike Norris SS Fireclone Damascus Chef

timos- · Sep 27, 2023

My second opportunity to work on a billet made by Mike Norris of Kentucky

This one is done up in Mike's stainless fireclone twist knife steel and SS twist ring stockfor the ferrule.
alter. ivory spacer and viet rosewood birdseye for the handle.
Bevels are convex ground to zero, fullers ground on each side, spine chamfered, choil rounded, neck is sculpted into an elliptical cross section.
Of course full distal taper.

timos- · Oct 19, 2023

Here the pro shot.... Thanks for looking.

milesofalaska · Nov 16, 2023

Nice all right. Curious if you do your own heat treat , how this steel turns out, how it performs as a chef knife. In that balance between looks and function. Curious like, if the back was drawn back in hardness. A chef knife has to have at least a little flex?

timos- · Nov 16, 2023

Hello,

I did my own heat treat per Mike's specs. I think it was something like a n 1850 Aus, plate quench , I cool to room temp and then put it in the freezer to convert as much RA as I can.
No need to draw back the spine. The blade will flex to a varying degree dependent on the thickness. The full hardness allows the knife to spring back straight.

milesofalaska · Nov 17, 2023

timos- said:
Hello,

I did my own heat treat per Mike's specs. I think it was something like a n 1850 Aus, plate quench , I cool to room temp and then put it in the freezer to convert as much RA as I can.
No need to draw back the spine. The blade will flex to a varying degree dependent on the thickness. The full hardness allows the knife to spring back straight.

Thanks! I get told Damascus is no better than plain steels in pereformace. However I now think the various layers of different steels swill heat revert different and handle stress different be altered by the heat treat different and thus have the advantages of ability to flex across the layers while remaining hard enough for practical use. I have my own methods but always like to know how it is with others. I also believed in the use of fight freezer ( I do 2 temps with freeze in between) I try a simple crop treat with acetone and dry ice. It's supposed to help. Hmmm. ˙However ˆoncd gZv dup on cal the extra steps and skipped this and that in z 'who realty cares, will pay for it, what a waste of time' mood. One blade in the batch broke before the knife handled was complete. Not always, all the time, but again hmmm.I now pay attention more. You do great work, so wanted to know what you decided, again, thanks.

timos- · Nov 17, 2023

no problem, in the last few years i think the community here kinda reached a consensus with Dr Larrins work at knifesteelnerds.com Its the best data we have to go on imo.
The main thing with the cold treatment is to use it as an extension of the quench....you want to continue the cooling process down as low as you can....so right from quench and into the freezer...afterwards you can do your tempering for stress relief.

milesofalaska · Nov 17, 2023

timos- said:
no problem, in the last few years i think the community here kinda reached a consensus with Dr Larrins work at knifesteelnerds.com Its the best data we have to go on imo.
The main thing with the cold treatment is to use it as an extension of the quench....you want to continue the cooling process down as low as you can....so right from quench and into the freezer...afterwards you can do your tempering for stress relief.

II agree, however told, some risk going into the freezer of the stress crackling the blade, or warpiing? Had it happen just once. My thought is there was a failure on my part in the heat treat too have caused this amount of internal stress. Ok at what point would you cryo treat? I assume this is more than just the continuation of 'drop the temp.' I view cryo treatment as a second quench and shock but for some reason, without the stress. Told it can be done any time. I try it between two tempers. But wonder if it is best after the second temper as a last treatment. And wonder how long one can wait. I sometimes wait a week or two until I have access to dry ice. Anyone done tests who knows more than just theory and guessing? One knife maker told me he can cryo treat an existing finished knife, handle and all ,and get visible results. I go "Huh. Interesting." Yes some steel responds better, but told it hurts no steel. I like D2, and told this is one that responds well to deep cold. Seen no difference in my crude tests however. Hate to do this just to say I did. My finished blades do well in all tests.... but would like more knowledge on 'why.' You know when selling and get asked, it's nice to speak with intelligence. (grin) I'm slow to believe though. My methods are so different it is hard to know if follow up treatments work for me. I heat rear with a torch And only edged harden, s no draw back needed and can get the edge harder due to not stressing the entire blade. However a temperature difference across the steel is stress. It seems however 'stress' is a somewhat narrow critical temperature window. If I quench correct I minimized stress not wanted. No warps no cracks no weak blades in tests. Anyhow not seen any deep talk concerning the workings of the cryo cold treatment.

timos- · Nov 20, 2023

as far as i understand the retained austenite will stabilize pretty quickly at room temp. once it has stabilized it will not be converted. I am not sure what other advantages a cold treatment might have other than converting the RA.

milesofalaska · Nov 20, 2023

timos- said:
as far as i understand the retained austenite will stabilize pretty quickly at room temp. once it has stabilized it will not be converted. I am not sure what other advantages a cold treatment might have other than converting the RA.

I understand your view and reasons. However the one time one of my blades cracked in the freezer, not before. This has me believed 'something happened' It was Ed Fowler here on fhe forum who said he believed in the freezer back over a decade ago. I trusted his opinion. No proof. I also am a believer steel changes in time. As everything does. Steel in 50 years has measurable differences than it did when forged. I've seen no studies with numbers. I simply believe this. As glass flows and a window over 100 years changes. I feel everything does. Steel slowly alters.Can this be speeded up? 'Other than converting the RA?" So that is a change. If we acknowledge some change, other changes are possible, or the RA change matters. Is knife making blade creating science or art? Will all steel treated the same come out exactly the same? I say no. This belief is why I play and experiment and fool with the process. Is that like reinventing the wheel? I'm really, with primitive methods, going to discover what has never been discovered before? There is no unknown left? I say "Here! Watch this!" And am only a fool? Ok, quite possible. But it pleases me to dream. I deal in 'maybe!' So I freeze the steel before tempering. Ir seems not to hurt it any. If I say, "And I froze it before the temper" Said with sincerity, and a customer says "Cool I want that one!" Has harm been done? I make knives to sell. Have I somehow given knife making a bad name? Now we get into moral issues. Science? I say Science changes by the decade.yes? Are we knife makers doing it exactly how we did 10 years ago? I read expert books from the 1960's and for sure we make better blades today (supposedly- do we?) You know... car leaf springs quenched in used engine oil. Famous blades made. How do they hold up today, I wonder. So.... hmmmm . I respect you feel freeze is no help. I accept your blades hold up in all tests at least as well as mine. We are both happy with our methods. So let's smile. LIfe is such a hoot!