Mil-surp gear for bushcraft/camping?

steve-in-kville

steve-in-kville

Joined
Dec 25, 2001
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My teenage boys are showing interest in bushcraft and we would like to do some overnight trips this year in a section of woods not far from out home. These boys need packs of some sort and I have always had a place in my heart for mil-surp gear. Is this wise, or should I be looking at something different? I've looked at Cabelas "guide" type packs but I feel that is overkill for this situation.
 
In general military packs suck.


Figure out what you are carrying. Then find the pack(s) to carry it.

When you get that far consider these thing.

First the pack fits your body.
- packs come in different sizes.
- for your hip belt to work the back length and shoulder width of your pack need to be right.
- a fitting pack shifts most of the weight of your loaded pack onto your hips.

Then the pack fits your stuff. There are two metrics of stuff.
- weight. The heavier the load the more important the weight transfering abilities of the packs frame to your hips becomes. Basically as your load increases you'll need a beefier pack. Compare for example the osprey atmos 50 to the deuter aircomfort pro 60+15.
- volume. The more volume you're humping the bigger your pack needs to be.

Here is the REI guide to choosing a pack.
http://blog.rei.com/hike/infographic-how-to-choose-and-fit-a-backpack/
 
Thanks for the replies. I see your point on mil-surp being unsuitable for anything but military service. Never really looked at it that way...

That being said, I am seriously considering a sturdy external frame pack for myself. I own a few Osprey daypacks and hydration packs, but they are too small for this application of hauling tarps, knives, axe, etc. The boys can do with those Ospreys I already own, I suppose. But my pack has better be built like a tank!
 
steve-in-kville said:
Thanks for the replies. I see your point on mil-surp being unsuitable for anything but military service. Never really looked at it that way...

That being said, I am seriously considering a sturdy external frame pack for myself. I own a few Osprey daypacks and hydration packs, but they are too small for this application of hauling tarps, knives, axe, etc. The boys can do with those Ospreys I already own, I suppose. But my pack has better be built like a tank!
Click to expand...
I carry an Osprey Kestrel 48. It's an excellent pack and very comfortable. Plenty of volume for me as I know how to pack it and don't tote what I won't need.
 
I don't know your terrain or your physical fitness level.

I do KNOW I don't like the big external frame packs filled to the gills with gear. Been there, done that, got the bad knees to prove it. :)

I'd rather load up a canoe or car. Or even walk leading a bike with supplies. Here is a milsurp bike.
Bicycle_on_Ho_Chi_Minh_trail.jpg


Funny fact about the vietcong... they didn't ride their bikes. They beefed up the frames, added steering sticks, and used then to transport hundreds of pounds of rations and ammo up and down the trails.

I guess what I'm saying is... work smart. Not hard. :)

The biggest pack I carry any length these days is a kelty redwing 50. It fits me, has smart features, and a decent weight to load capacity.
 
I would take the boys to REI or someplace where they can try on packs. Don't spend too much if they're still growing. But not too small of a pack either; if the boys are teenagers, their dad shouldn't be carrying their stuff for them. ;)

I like to sometimes carry a military-surplus wool blanket (not from USA) for extra padding and insulation. And the nice GI ponchos with the grommets and snaps can be really nice to have. But no way I'd carry a mil-surp pack. :thumbdn:
 
I have (and have had) many milsurp packs growing up. The biggest issue is that they are heavy. Why would you want to start out with an empty bag weighing several lbs, ya know?
 
i highly reccomend these packs for your boys

i believe they come in 35,50 and 75 liters. they are spacious and empty feel lighter than my 5:11 3day rush

Mike has added two pouches to his pack which are cheap if you can stitch them. even without these are low cost and well suited to younger folks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcVEsNSJQC8
 
Dredsen said:
i highly reccomend these packs for your boys

i believe they come in 35,50 and 75 liters. they are spacious and empty feel lighter than my 5:11 3day rush

Mike has added two pouches to his pack which are cheap if you can stitch them. even without these are low cost and well suited to younger folks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcVEsNSJQC8
Click to expand...

1676a.jpg


Looks like a perfect example of why NOT to buy army surplus stuff. Thin straps, poor padding, contoured like a box, no waist or sternum straps, the compartments don't zip or seal closed, no expandability, no organization, heavy material... Exactly all the characteristics to avoid when backpack shopping, IMO. :thumbdn:
 
For all the reasons stated: avoid it. I too love the old GI gear. My father served 29 years so we always had a piece or two around ;)

With that said, when I went back packing last summer i racked up several hundreds of miles. I was VERY happy to have my Osprey pack. Total system weight less food and water was around 22-23 pounds or so. I was able to hike wet or dry, and hot or temps down to about 30 degrees F or so. The pack performed better than expected and I'd buy it again if I had to. Osprey ATMOS AG 65.

Also, with any type of distance you'll learn to love trekking poles too.
 
I use surplus sleeping bags, pants, parkas. It's well made and not expensive. As for the packs I would guess you'd be fine for overnight camping close to home with a surplus pack. If they want to pursue backpacking let them get their own gear as they get older.
 
My boys used medium alice packs from the teens and to their early twenties. Great start gear that is easy on the wallet. Plus they thought they were cool having mil gear. And they Swedish Pack mentioned KL35 is awesome simple pack. I have one and use it from time to time. I swaped the shoulder straps with alice straps and put a molle II waist belt on it.
 
how heavy are their gear? i have several ospreys and by far the best suspension i've tried on is their atmos line. if they have lightweight gear, look at gossamer gear packs too.

for you, if you want a pack built like a tank but with one of the best suspensions out there i highly recommend a kifaru...berry-amendment compliant so literally everything is made in the usa. it's the only pack i use for anything beyond lightweight trips.
 
Personally I'd buy a cheap pack from Walmart before milsurp gear. They may be more durable but in every other regard they're a negative. Weight, comfort, perception...IMO there are no benefits to milsurp gear. There are some exceptions of course but packs aren't one of them. :)
 
Ask around your friends to see if there are some hand me down packs kicking around.

If the kids are grown man sized then the surplus stuff is fine. Sure it's not that good but it's free from Dad. If they're small kid sized then not so good.

If they're kid sized then check out what the Boy Scouts are using.

If you want cheap sweat shop packs from China etc. then Wall-Mart is good place to start.
 
My experience with kids and packs, is that the pack fit is much more important. If they don't fit, its going to be tough to get them to want to carry them, and injuries are more likely. The thing is though that a lot of the packs now have a pretty good range of fit, and some even have swap-able harnesses. I'd get them fitted with a the biggest pack that can be adjusted down as far as it can go. This gives you growth spurt room to adjust as they grow. Depending on the kids, it can be a fresh fitting every trip (although really its important to do anyway) You should have enough of an idea by now of how much sprout is left. As far as the rest of the mil-surp gear, there is some good stuff to be found in the way of mess tins, camp sundries and the like. Sure other stuff might be lighter, but I'd rather go milsurp than walmart if I had to. If the boys want to really rough it, stuff like poncho/shelter halves can be a cool experience, but only if they want it.

All that being said, If you have access to milsurp gear, and are at all handy, you can custom out some bags that will straddle that line for them. Especially as they grow. Most mil stuff wasn't exactly sized for a wide range of people. So I'd expect some fitting to be required, but it could be done, and then it really is "their" pack.

I see more and more osprey packs around with the folks I work with, hard to beat that warranty, and the stories I've heard from guys of what actually killed their pack, well, lets say by the time the pack failed, it had already gone very wrong, and it was by far not the weak link in the chain.
 
I second the diversity and use of the Osprey packs. A lot of guys I know would pack everything needed for 48 hours in an Osprey 65L and we had access to a variety of different packs as options. Multiple guys would not only carry all their essentials but often a second rifle with the barrel protruding out the top of the pack. In short I've seen them perform to a high level. Had a few zippers give out but Osprey has life time on their gear and as long as you clean it first they fix or replace the item for free. 65L is a great size with some smart packing using both stuff and compression sacks. There is also multiple places external on the pack to smartly affix items without turning into a yard sale.
 
StoneBeard said:
I second the diversity and use of the Osprey packs. A lot of guys I know would pack everything needed for 48 hours in an Osprey 65L
Click to expand...
I pack everything I need for 48 hours in winter in a 48L Osprey.

Resized%2520Turtle.jpg
 
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I own a surplus ALICE pack, and it is certainly sturdy and capable of some rough handling, but yeah . . . it was not built with comfort in mind. My wife (an Army Reservist) has a current-issue Army frame pack that can carry even more gear than the ALICE, and the frame is definitely a step up in term of ergonomics, but is so heavy on its own that it's sheer overkill for recreational use. Likewise, my brother has a surplus USMC ILBE pack (with detachable "assault" pack) and he has worn it on a few hiking trips simply because it's the only pack he had with the capacity he needed at the time, but it's awfully heavy empty.

The military packs have their place for civilian use, I think, but sure aren't ideal for hiking. On the other hand, if you have a pack with MOLLE webbing and are looking to add some exterior capacity, many of the surplus MOLLE pouches are great for such purposes and are dirt cheap. I've seen people find some pretty clever uses for MOLLE mag pouches, grenade pouches, etc.
 
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