Mild steel for San Mai?

Willie71

Willie71

Warren J. Krywko
Joined
Feb 23, 2013
Messages
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I've been doing some billets of Damascus and San Mai this past few weeks. What type of mild steel is recommended for the jacket? I can easily get 1008, 1018, and a36. Anything else would have to be ordered in.

My forge welding is getting better. I'm working out the kinks (warming the anvil in a cold shop helps a lot, :o )
 
I always used just regular 1018..If I had my druthers it would have been something like 1002. Just to be honest it all worked just fine for me. Ive used 1018,1020 and A36. A36 is the one Id pick last though.
 
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Yea, a36 is more dirty, with more impurities and only comes in hot rolled with scale. 1018 is always colled rolled (scale free) and is more made to specs in it's make up, or cleaner. I did a good amount of research on this same subject a few years ago and this is what I seem to remember about the two, but somebody please correct if I'm off.

The very best is Gokunantetsu, which is of course probably just as hard to get as white paper steel. It's the very pure, low carbon steel that is always used on japanese (non-stainless) laminated blades. Here are it's specs so you can compare it with others: (C< .08, S < 0.10, Mn < .030, P < 0.03, S </0.03)

I don't really know about 1008. If it's the same as 1018 but with 10 points less carbon I'd go with that for sure. :thumbup:

~Paul
My YT Channel Lsubslimed
... (It's been quite a while since I've posted any new vids)
 
Thanx. This was helpful. I saw a recommendation for a36, and was second guessing myself.

I WON'T be ordering the Japanese mild steel for a while though.
 
Personally friend if I could get 1008 that's what Id go with..What coldsteelburns mentioned about a36 being more "dirty" is the exact reason I said it would be my last one to pick.
 
A36 is an abréviation for "a combination of the 36 different types of scrap metal that were in the recycle bin when we smelted this batch." :D Ed Caffrey told me a number of years ago that he made a guard from A36 and when he etched it, you could see the outline of a machine screw.
 
Kentucky said:
Personally friend if I could get 1008 that's what Id go with..What coldsteelburns mentioned about a36 being more "dirty" is the exact reason I said it would be my last one to pick.
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The 1008 is in plate form. I'll stop by the supplier tomorrow and see what they have.
 
jdm61 said:
A36 is an abréviation for "a combination of the 36 different types of scrap metal that were in the recycle bin when we smelted this batch." :D Ed Caffrey told me a number of years ago that he made a guard from A36 and when he etched it, you could see the outline of a machine screw.
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I'll avoid it. :thumbup:
 
have any of you guys used say 1045 for the cladding? My thinking is that if the outer layer hardens a bit, then I could use a thinner core. Where I really get to thinking about that is with stainless. Is there any stainless that will harden to some degree at carbon steel temps?
 
jdm61 said:
have any of you guys used say 1045 for the cladding? My thinking is that if the outer layer hardens a bit, then I could use a thinner core. Where I really get to thinking about that is with stainless. Is there any stainless that will harden to some degree at carbon steel temps?
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Are you merely thinking in terms of not having to worry about the carbon level equalizing at too low of a level while using a thinner core? Or are you thinking in terms of there being a bit more "spring" to the cladding? Not taking the stainless aspect into consideration here, as I'm mainly curious as to what your thoughts are regaring using a higher carbon steel for the cladding.

~Paul
My YT Channel Lsubslimed
... (It's been quite a while since I've posted any new vids)
 
I believe that one of the major concerns doing san mai is the difference in expansion rate between the 2 metals during heat treatment.
You have to avoid the central core expanding (transf. to martensite) when the cladding is not, tearing apart the blade at the welds or even splitting in 2 the core lenghtwise..
You could use a mild cladding, not too thick, that is more soft and willing to stretch a bit, following the core in the expansion, or use an hardenable cladding that follows the core on its own.
 
Spring temper as opposed to noodle temper. :D
coldsteelburns said:
Are you merely thinking in terms of not having to worry about the carbon level equalizing at too low of a level while using a thinner core? Or are you thinking in terms of there being a bit more "spring" to the cladding? Not taking the stainless aspect into consideration here, as I'm mainly curious as to what your thoughts are regaring using a higher carbon steel for the cladding.

~Paul
My YT Channel Lsubslimed
... (It's been quite a while since I've posted any new vids)
Click to expand...
 
jdm61 said:
Spring temper as opposed to noodle temper. :D
Click to expand...

Honestly, this subject makes me think of the video M Carter posted about his Forged in Fire experience. He speaks about the same concept, but the difference in the hardness (springiness) in this specific situation wasn't due to the level of carbon on the cladding, but rather the quech medium (oil vs water) he chose to use to quench it in. Maybe you've seen it, maybe not, but you might find it interesting since it's fairly relavent. Here ya go ;) ...

[video=youtube;VspF2DAxis8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VspF2DAxis8[/video]


~Paul
My YT Channel Lsubslimed
... (It's been quite a while since I've posted any new vids)
 
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