Military in 440V or S30V

J

Josephldoyle

Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Messages
184
Have recently been bitten in a big way by the Spyderco bug!

Looking to pick up a Military model next. My knife shop has 2 versions- one with a 440V blade marked "Military", the other with a S30V blade with the Spyderco logo.

Prices on these knives are comparable.

Which, if either, is the more desirable knife?

Thanks in advance.
 
The S30V is the newer steel, replacing 440V a few years back. I can't remember exactly why it's better, but someone will chime in with that information.

The 440V might have more collector's value.
 
The 440V models are getting hard to come by, so you may want to consider that.

Tom
 
Were the 440V models the ones that still had a single liner or was that when they went to two liners?
 
Reeek said:
Were the 440V models the ones that still had a single liner or was that when they went to two liners?
Click to expand...

I believe the 440V models have the single liner. If I recall correctly the change was made during the current S30V production.

Tom
 
The second partial liner was introduced on the BG-42/CF Sprint run, and added to the regular production model at about the same time, so the S30V model in the store may or may not have the second liner. The 440V model will not have the second liner unless it has been FrankenSpydered together out of old and new parts.

S30V is supposed to have better toughness at any given hardness than 440V, giving less chipping at the same hardness. It is also run harder than 440V to give better edge retention. In my experience, the slightly softer 440V holds an edge longer than S30V, but my use is not typical. You would probably be happier with the S30V, especially if you don't have diamond hones for sharpening, as 440V is somewhat notorius in that respect.

If you decide to go with the S30V, I'd like to know where the shop is so I can buy the 440V model. I do have diamond hones. ;)
 
Kenix said:
The S30V is the newer steel, replacing 440V a few years back. I can't remember exactly why it's better, but someone will chime in with that information.

The 440V might have more collector's value.
Click to expand...

I think 440V is AKA S60V. S60V holds an edge better, but it's more prone to corrosion and probably a bit more brittle.
 
I get far more use out of 440v, s30v has never feared well for me at work.
440V seems to lap up abuse and then ask for then more. Sharpening it though can definitely be testing at times , just don't let it get dull!
And for the record my good old single liner Millie does just fine. Another point to note is that the 440V Millie has an adjustable eccentric pivot.

Bo.
 
s30v > s60v

s60 is kept i believe around 56rc i believe because of how brittle it is. this lowers is edge retention a lot and s30v is still tougher and easier to work with. s90v is a different story
 
Most of the motivation behind the "move" from 440v to S30v was due to the reduced vanadium in S30v. 440v was hell on tooling because of it's anti-wear properties. Chris Reeve touches on this in the excellent mp3 interview that can still be found over at woodsmonkey.com. Do yourself a favor and download that podcast. Lots of insight there. Anyhoo, I get the feeling that S30v wasn't intro'd because it was the best thing for the end user, I get the feeling it was intro'd because it was easier on manufacturing equipment while retaining many of the same qualities (although at reduced levels) that 440v had. Basically, the end user took it in the shorts and the manufacturer gets the luxury of purchasing fewer belts, stones, and mill bits. That's the lowdown I come away with by reading between the lines. Listen to the interview and see what you think.

All that said, I HATED 440v because of the nasty wire edge during sharpening. But this was after the "sneaky" switch to a lower hardness due to chipping fears. Very early 440v blades had higher hardness and was a lot easier to sharpen. But after an unfavorable article in a largely circulated knife magazine, the manufacurers (spyderco basically) scrambled for cover and reduced their hardness down to the mid fifties. This resulted in an almost comical wire edge during sharpening that couldn't be gotten rid of under ANY circumstances. If you sharpened the knife, it had a wire edge. Period. No exceptions. If you can get hold of an EARLY 440v Military or Starmate, by all means BUY IT. At any cost. THAT was how a blade should be made. Sharpenability, edge holding, toughness. It had it all. The move to a softer 440v, then eventually the move to S30v were GIANT leaps backwards from the early 440v.

It's sort of like Pepsi telling you that corn syrup is "the same" as sugar in their testing. You know better, but that's what they say while corn is 3.50 a bushel. Once corn reaches 11.00 and sugar is cheaper, watch 'em roll out the "throwback" flavor. Er, I thought there was no difference. (cue retarted slobbering noises and involuntary muscle spasms). :jerkit:

Welcome to the bean-counting division of customer relations. Cheers...
 
Minor correction, Harry. It wasn't the fear of chipping, it was the complaints of chipping that caused the change. There is at least one contributor here who has one of the early 440V Millies that got tossed in the toolbox because it chipped every time he used it for anything. And if you can't sharpen one of the softer ones without creating a wire edge, you need to work on your technique. I manage just fine.
 
Yes, with a major learning curve the later, softer 440v is manageable. It will always have a wire edge (in my experience) but it is minimalized by using a ceramic stick as a "steel" after sharpening (with very delicate pressure). And yes, early 440v may have had more than "fears" of chipping. There were some that had true chipping problems. One of those models got shipped to the knife magazine that did the review that ended life as 440v knew it. All early models weren't like that, however. There were good Natives, Starmates, and Militarys that made it thru. The bad chippers were a fluke and the reaction by the industry was an OVER reaction. Cheers.
 
If you sharpen it on ceramic or diamond stones and it doesn't develop an impossible wire edge, it's the harder (earlier) blade. Later, softer blades develop a wire edge on the opposite side that you are sharpening and when you switch to that side, it simply "rolls" to the other side. The act of sharpening puts you in mind of a dog chasing a kite up and down the beach.

Conversely, if your blade, while sharpening, acts like 99% of other blade steels currently on the market it's probably an early 440v blade. Hang onto it.
 
Last edited:
The easiest way to tell on those in the store is by the clip. The early 440V with the harder blades had 2 screw clips, the later runs with the softer treatment have 3 screw clips.
 
Early 440v is quite rare as the "softening" took place fairly early in the lifespan of the steel. You're probably on the right track going with the S30V model, if you're looking for a user.

I thought the two screw mils were in the ATS-34 days but I could be mistaken. If it is, in fact a two screw mil BUY IT regardless of the blade steel. If you don't want it and it's really a two screw, send me an email with the contact info and I'll buy it. Two screw mils are rare as hens teeth.

If the blade has the laser etched "military" with the strange looking unfinished "a", I'd guarantee it's not an early 440V. The early 440v models would almost certainly have the old school diamond engraving.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top