Military vs Starmate, Where the C36 shines

Nemo

Nemo

Joined
Oct 16, 1998
Messages
1,697
Hello,

A quick word as we are conducting tests with the Starmate (putting in it in a vise, cutting in two coke cans).
Don't throw away you Military, because it shines in two very important point.

1-Quick draws
First when you need a blade while you are under pressure. When you need a blade immediatly, the Military (thanks to his big hole) is the quick draw folding knife. You cannot misse it or fumble with it...

2-Handle
The Starmate handle is stronger than the Military BUT the ergonomy of the C36 is better especially for long slashes Fred Perrin does in his cutting demo.

3-Blade
On the c36 you can apply strengh on the blade without to stress the handle (thanks to the humps). This is a big plus in a folder which can hardly fold on our fingers...

The Starmate is excellent but don't forget the Military !

Cheers,

Nemo and Fred Perrin


[This message has been edited by Nemo (edited 18 August 1999).]
 
Thank goodness someone is getting over "new knife fever" and giving the Starmate a critical eye. I think it's superb and gets more pocket time than anything of mine right now, but I know in the long run I'll be back to the Military (or my AFCK, of course).

Quoth the Military:"Reports of my death have been slightly exaggerated."

The Starmate's main weakness, as noted, is on the draw. Even after taking a nice matching cutout from the back scale of mine so the hole is no longer obstucted, the hole is still smaller and harder to reach than the Military's. It's also closer to the pivot than on other large Spydies, a small distance that makes a huge difference. When going for a quick "drop" opening, I find myself regularly grabbing 1/4" past the hole, on the spine of the blade. Ack! Practice is fixing this, but it's sad that I have to adjust a technique that works on all the other knives I own.

Starmate vs. Military... this is gonna be interesting. Now taking bets
wink.gif


-Drew
 
3-Blade
On the c36 you can apply strengh on the blade without to stress the handle (thanks to the humps). This is a big plus in a folder which can hardly fold on our fingers...
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I understand this one. How do you hold it?

Regarding the rest, it's clear they were designed with different [main] uses in mind. So I've only felt a need for a Starmate.

As for the coke cans, I presume your ones are of the thin walled variety?
------------------
Urban Fredriksson
www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/
See above for:
* The F1's aircrew sheath photo




[This message has been edited by Griffon (edited 17 August 1999).]
 
Griffon,

You can hold the blade of the C-36 without to touch the handle thanks to the "hump" and the "ricasso" (the base before the edge). ALso if the blade wnat to close (lock failure) you're still hold it.

I put "coke cans" because it's neutral, we have also cut beer, soda cans from different source and different thickness. We are now training in cutting flying squirrels in two !
wink.gif
but if you prefer we can go back to "coke cans"...

Finally the "survival tool" Military could be a better weapon than the "tactical folder" Starmate.
And the Starmate could be a better survival tool (thanks to his very very solid blade, compact size and confortable handle) than the Military.

The fast Military is perfect in emergency (open it close it without to think), the Starmate is a heavy chore workhorse which can even be a light chopping tool.

We got now the choice between two excellent folders and there is absolute no reason to bury one or the other.

Starmate for the wilderness and Military for the city ? It matters what you use your knives for.


cheers,

JM


[This message has been edited by Nemo (edited 17 August 1999).]
 
Nemo, when cutting the flying squirrels, is that lengthwise or crosswise?
smile.gif
 
Starmate for the wilderness and Military for the city ? It matters what you use your knives for.
Click to expand...

Perhaps one could make some sort of diagrams, like this one, which refers to two different kinds of steel, showing the intended uses for different kinds of knives.

<div style="text-align:center">
steel.gif
</div>

I'm sure this kind of diagrams exist in the heads of designers (but perhaps sub-consiously). If you've got several products, this kind of thing might help users choose the right kind of knife for what they need it for.

------------------
Urban Fredriksson
www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/
See above for:
* The F1's aircrew sheath photo


 
The diagrams are a great idea! What about adding a percentage to each axis, so that VISUAL inspection can be backed up by the NUMBERS? That way, we can compare the qualities without too much guesswork...? Especially where some models are VERY close together in certain areas.

<SERIOUS COMMENT>
NEMO: the flying squirrel test is no good! The repeatability of the test is questionable, as different parts of the squirrel's anatomy can be hooked by the Starmate in the lengthwise orientation...
wink.gif
biggrin.gif

(I'm SURE that we will be under crossfire if the GREEN people ever see this thread!!
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)
 
Oh yes, you are right,
so let's train on cats !

I like the diagram too !

JM
 
Griffon - the diagrams are excellent. Thank you. I will present this to the R & D. When you indicated strength, was that blade or lock strength.

Heyns - The public use of the diagrams could cause some real flames. Adding numbers to the diagrams would be fanning the flame.

My Statistics instructor taught me that "statistics don't lie, but statisticians lie like hell".

Any test is arguable based on; the tester's accuracy or intentions, The heat treat, Rockwell and the method of testing. Unless done by an independent and trusted lab, the results would always be questioned by someone.

For some, truth is the highest value in the totem. But not all inquiring minds want to know.

Some companies make fine products and hopefully, some money. Some companies just make money. If a company is just making money, the "bending" of truth is an acceptable form of advertising.

Just my opinion.
sal


 
When you indicated strength, was that blade or lock strength.
Click to expand...

The diagram in question is actually only for steels, which I made up as a demonstration some time ago, so expanding the idea to whole knives would require adding a couple of parameters. But not too many, at least not as an aid to users to choose the right knife. (Internally, when figuring out how large a product range one needs, might be another matter, or perhaps not as it's the users' percieved needs which counts.)

At the moment, I feel it would be useful to use the above diagram as a symbol next to each knife in the catalogue for the type of steel in it and a similar one next to it for a couple of other properties.

The public use of the diagrams could cause some real flames. Adding numbers to the diagrams would be fanning the flame.
Click to expand...

I never intended the diagrams to be translatable to actual numbers. You'd need too many "ticks" on the scale for it to be useful, I think about four on each scale is as much as is reasonable.

The diagrams should only show the relative positions between knives within the same manufacturer's product range (and not between makers), partly because some values will necessarily be subjective and thus rather reflect the goal of the design rather than testing numbers, partly because the objective values can be arrived at via different methods.

------------------
Urban Fredriksson
www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/
See above for:
* The F1's aircrew sheath photo


 
Sal,
point taken. I also thought about that one a bit after submitting the post... Well, I'll have to do the thinking next time BEFORE posting, I guess...
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You make a VERY good point about advertising in general. However, these kinds of adverts usually get me in a fighting mood, ESPECIALLY if they infringe (fraudulous (?!?!?) claims) on the technical superiority of my FAVOURITE slicers...
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