Mill advice please?

JG Custom Metal Works

JG Custom Metal Works

Joined
Nov 27, 2013
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So I have a line on a Bridgeport clone mill. It’s made by Buffalo I think and is a clone of a Bridgeport “J” model. It’s single phase power and 1.5 horsepower. The guy is asking $1200 for it but I might be able to get it for a little less. He said it runs great and the table runs smooth. The only issue is sometimes the lead screws take a rotation or two to catch. It does have a DRO Accurite II Either that, or get him to throw in an older Brown & Sharp No. 2 surface grinder. He said he’s never used the surface grinder before and doesn’t know how well it works.

If I DO decide to get it, I need to figure out the logistics of moving it. I have a flat bed trailer that I can put it on but my main issue will be moving it to and from the trailer and into my garage. Once it’s in my garage it will have plenty of room. Should I get a engine jack or chain hoist of some sort? Any advice on moving would be greatly appreciated.

Here are some pics:

https://imgur.com/gallery/EdJu7

https://imgur.com/gallery/IrVbl

https://imgur.com/gallery/60yR6
 
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The only issue is sometimes the lead screws take a rotation or two to catch.
That's new leadscrews and nuts - pretty easy fix if you have a parts source

Things I"d take along to get it

Wrenches
unlock the head and lower the knee, put it's head between it's legs = lower center of gravity

2x 5 gallon pails full of wooden wedges, 2x4'x 4x4's and thinner bits of plywood.
a 6 foot long prybar / pinch bar
https://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/pry-bars/18-lb-pinch-point-bar-95971.html
You pry it up enough to get a wedge in then pry and block-pry and block- until you get what you want

5 pieces of 3/4 round rod cold rolled 1 foot wider than the base
a broom
A helper, at the very least a kid that listens well.

I have a gantry that fits over the trailer, you lift stuff straight up and put the trailer under it.

If you're pulling it onto the trailer, yes chains and a come along plus chains and chain tighteners for the ride home.

I have a wood bed on the trailer and I'm not hung up on it.
I take along some short 2x4's and nail them to the bed to block in the stuff from shifting-in addition to chaining it down.

Keep in mind a load will always shift to the front.

If you don't want to move it yourself, you can ask around for tilt load tow truck drivers, they move a lot of stuff

You may want to build a pallet / bolt some long stringers under the base for a bigger base-less tipppy
Look up rental places they have stuff

This is pretty good, except you see the guy pulling up to lift
Use a lever and push down, then you can walk it sideways

When I pull it onto the trailer I would hook up as low as possible not as high as they do



 
When I got my mill I had a tow truck driver set it in my shop and skid it into place with a skid steer. No pics of that but same thing for my number 5.

IMG_20171002_212017_359.jpg
 
Good advice above. As my old boss used to say when we were moving big and heavy, "keep it low and go slow".
Nice find!
 
Awesome. Thanks a bunch for the information everyone, I really appreciate it.

So you guys think the mill looks good to go? I’m wondering what all I will need tooling wise to get setup for milling guard slots... Funds will be kind of depleted after dropping out on the mill, but I understand I need a few things to run it. I’ll probably try and find a decent vise. I don’t think Harbor Freight is going to be the way to go with mill tooling.

I was thinking about getting an engine jack though. My trailer has one of those wire mesh gates/ramps that fold up right/down. I’m pretty sure it would not support the mill rolling down it. I thought about jacking up the rear of the trailer to brace it and then putting some boards on top of the ramp/gate. If I could find a engine jack that was tall enough I could just hook up the mill from outside the trailer, jack it up a little, and then drive the trailer out from under it. That probably won’t work I don’t think though. The jack probably won’t be big enough. I’d have to get one of those gantry frames or something. I’m not trying to dump $700+ on one of those.
 
The table looks in decent shape (no divots, gouges, holes, etc...) as far as I can see, so that's a relatively good sign. Hard to tell the real condition just based on pictures, but I'm thinking $1200 might be a touch on the high side, especially if it needs a new ball screw assembly. Then again, that also depends on how often knee mills show up for sale locally to you.

The DRO is nice, though it's antiquated and simple. For $300 you can get a 3 axis Chinese DRO that has loads more features and is likely just as accurate.

Take a dial indicator with a mag base and check the spindle for runout and looseness. If it runs, listen to the bearings. Check everything other for tightness, smoothness, etc...
Engage the back gear and listen/feel for excessive noise and vibration.

As for moving, the count covered it pretty well. I'd rotate the head as far around as it will go to get the motor as low as possible. Be mindful of any spindle oil that spills out and be sure to replace as needed. ;)

Looks like its raised enough that you MIGHT get a low profile pallet jack under it, or at least be able to raise it enough to get a pallet jack under it. A tilting trailer really helps. Just make sure you have the top supported with a come-a-long and pull it onto your trailer. Don't get underneath or down hill of it. That machine is probably just north of 1200lbs, and they tend be be top heavy.

My mill was delivered on a truck with a lift gate, and the driver had a pallet jack. I rotated the head down to clear the garage door, and had him roll it into the corner where it sits to this day. It was on a pallet that I CAREFULLY broke apart with a sledge hammer, and used the weight of the machine and a 4 ft pry bar to get the pieces out.
 
JG Custom Metal Works said:
Awesome. Thanks a bunch for the information everyone, I really appreciate it.

So you guys think the mill looks good to go? I’m wondering what all I will need tooling wise to get setup for milling guard slots... Funds will be kind of depleted after dropping out on the mill, but I understand I need a few things to run it. I’ll probably try and find a decent vise. I don’t think Harbor Freight is going to be the way to go with mill tooling.

I was thinking about getting an engine jack though. My trailer has one of those wire mesh gates/ramps that fold up right/down. I’m pretty sure it would not support the mill rolling down it. I thought about jacking up the rear of the trailer to brace it and then putting some boards on top of the ramp/gate. If I could find a engine jack that was tall enough I could just hook up the mill from outside the trailer, jack it up a little, and then drive the trailer out from under it. That probably won’t work I don’t think though. The jack probably won’t be big enough. I’d have to get one of those gantry frames or something. I’m not trying to dump $700+ on one of those.
Click to expand...

If you drop the knee, and adjust the head appropriatly to balance, you MIGHT be able to use some straps and lift from a low enough point to raise it with an engine hoist and clear a low trailer. As for tooling, expect to pay around what the mill costs by the time you get going... ;)
Shars and Grizzly really aren't bad for most tooling, especially in a home shop capacity. Keep an eye out on craiglist and local ads for milling vises. I got a nice angle lock vise for about $80.
Apart from that, a good Dial Test Indicator and a pluger style test indicator are good to have. I'd also get an articulating mount for them. Noga makes the best, though Grizzly's knock off is about 1/2 the price and pretty decent for home use. A set of parallels are useful, as is a collet set if takes r8 tooling.
1-2-3 blocks and a fixturing/clamp set are nice to have for odd setups here and there, as are v-blocks. Then there's various end mills and cutters. Edge finders, center finders, centering drills, etc.... I'd also add a calculator for getting the most use out of your DRO. ;)

Pretty soon you'll be looking at milling heads, adding a pneumatic draw bar, 3 axis DRO, power feeds, coolant misters, etc... etc... and you'll wonder where you might find the money and space for a CNC VMC with tool changers and chip conveyors....

It's all down hill from here bud!
 
Have you considered renting at a drop deck trailer:


Using a drop deck trailer, a pallet jack and an engine hoist makes moving many tools easy.

Chuck
 
That mill is more like 2000 lbs. or a little bit more. It looks decent on the outside...
"Sometimes the lead screws take a rotation or two to catch." Well, if it's leadscrew and table nut wear, it should always take about the same amount of rotation or backlash for the table to move. You learn to deal with it until you can fix it. If you're lucky, this mill will be like a Bridgeport and have a split table nut that can be adjusted in some to take up some of that backlash. If parts are not available there are things such as Moglice that can be cast into the nut and provide a decent solution.
Accurite DRO's are good, in my experience. That's a real sweet perc.
Get that grinder, too! Looks like an automatic from what I can see of the table- there are stops and a trip dog it appears.
Collets, a vise, a chuck, and parallels are essential, followed by a T-slot clamping set, an edge finder, and a dial test indicator. Lakeshore Carbide is a dang good place to buy some endmills, and a fair amount of miscellaneous stuff such as indicator mag bases and 1-2-3 blocks can be found on Ebay or bought at Enco (did they go out of business?)
 
ENCO was bought out by MSC 10+ years ago but continued doing business as ENCO lot of people knew the name and trusted the tools and services. MSC finally took control late last year they sent me a nice letter with all the new info and all my purchase history Logins etc., were added to MSC website. Still just as fast and reliable as ENCO shipping and equal pricing.

That Mill is easy 2000lbs...and I would certainly try to work a deal for the surface grinder as Salem mentioned looks to be an "Auto" no baby sitting if it all works!!!
 
So I went to look at it today and it looks good. I can get the mill, the surface grinder, and an automatic feed for the mill for $1500. That’s breaks down to this:

Mill- $1200
Surface grinder- $200
Automatic power feed- $100


I’m trying to talk him down to $1400 but I don’t think he’s gonna budge. Also the mill comes with a coolant system. That includes a tank, pump, the hose that bends around and blasts the coolant on the work, a reservoir to catch the coolant and feeds it back through a filter, and then runs back through the system. He’s including the R8 collets for the mill and a drill chuck too.

The only draw back about the surface grinder is that it’s 3 phase. I’m getting it for $200 pretty much, so I can’t fuss too much. I don’t know if it works, and neither does he. I figure I might eventually try and get it to run.

Now, the biggest problem I have facing me. Moving these big bastards. My trailer is a single axel trailer with a GVWR of 2990lbs. My trailer weighs around 960lbs, so if I understand GVWR, that means the max load would be around 2040lbs. From what a couple guys here have said, this mill could weigh over 2000lbs. I’d be pulling it with a Nissan Pathfinder V6. Do you guys think what I have is good enough to haul it? If so, my only other problem is getting it from my trailer to the ground. The steel mesh is reinforced with angle iron but I don’t think it’s anywhere near strong enough to roll the mill down(on a pallet jack for instance).

This is the trailer I have:

https://www.carry-ontrailer.com/utility-trailers/5-5x10gwpt/

I don’t think the trailer is gonna hack it to be honest. So I’m not sure how I’m gonna go about this. The place where this mill is at is an hour away, out in the country. So I’m not really sure how I could go about hiring someone to go out there and pick it up with a flatbed tow truck with a tilt bed and a winch to pick it up. I’m gonna be calling around tomorrow though to find out. It would be nice if I could find a place that rents little drop dock trailers like the yellow one in that video posted above it would be perfect. But I’m not sure if there is any in the Topeka, KS area.

If anyone has any ideas, I’m all ears. I took some more pics today but am zapped and will post them tomorrow.
 
$1500 for the lot??? Man i live in wrong region. Been hunting for these very 2 items for goin on 2 years and not seen anything even close to this in price. Hell busted ones that don't even run go for more here :(
 
Topeka is not that small of a town is it? I can rent a drop deck trailer here, and there are a total of three stoplights within a 40 mile radius of my house... I'd go with a drop deck for sure, and as Chuck says, a pallet jack which likely you can rent from the same place. If not, tilt deck trailers are not bad either, plenty of vids on YT about moving machines with them and only a come along and some pipe rollers and pinch bar. Be aware though that you may need a trailer-brakes-equipped rig to rent much of what's available from rentals.
$1500? Run don't walk! Congrats on the find.
 
$1500 is a phenomenal deal, and a $100 VFD will get that grinder running.

I agree with Salem, if the mill has a couple of rev's of backlash, the DRO at the very least should mitigate that until you can replace parts or find a way to tighten up. That say, a couple revs is a LOT of backlash, so there may be something else going on.

As for the trailer conundrum, if you have any equipment rentals nearby, you might be able to rent a decent trailer for not a lot. Any local machine dealers may also be able to provide a service.
 
Good news. I found a place that has a drop deck trailer and a pallet jack. Now I just need to figure out if my 2003 Pathfinder can tow the thing with the mill. Unfortunately my two main friends with trucks are out of town. I’m thinking I might rent a pickup truck from U-Haul just to be safe. Between the pallet jack, trailer, and truck im looking at around $150-$200 to move these things.

With my two main friends being gone, and the rest not being “help you move” type friends, it looks like I’ll be moving things by myself when I get home. I will have my wife there to observe in case I get injured or something. To top it off I’m sick AND have a 5yr anniversary to deal with tomorrow(Friday). If it isn’t one thing, it’s another. I don’t care though, I’m gonna get this damn thing in my garage, if it’s the last thing I do. Lol

Thanks a bunch for all the help and advice everyone. I really appreciate it, as always. I’ll keep you guys posted. Cheers!
 
knife to a gunfight said:
$1500 is a phenomenal deal, and a $100 VFD will get that grinder running.

I agree with Salem, if the mill has a couple of rev's of backlash, the DRO at the very least should mitigate that until you can replace parts or find a way to tighten up. That say, a couple revs is a LOT of backlash, so there may be something else going on.
Click to expand...

So you’re telling me all I would need to run the three phase surface grinder is a VFD? I was under the impression that equipment that ran on three phase power, would require a three phase power source...

As far as the backlash is concerned, the DRO doesn’t start to register travel until the table adjustment knob engages the table and actually moves it.
 
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If you're willing to rent a truck and trailer, save yourself some grief and call a tow company to see what they would charge you to rig and set the machine for you. They will be able to do it with their smallest truck, and will do it in the way you proposed using a cherry picker, sling it under the boom, lift, drive trailer out from under it, back it into your shop and set on your concrete/pipes/rollers/etc. He only charged me $85 to do it. It took 30 minutes including unstrapping and BSing. Well worth the money. Hell, if the machine is local see what it would cost to pick it up where it's located and drop it at your shop, and maybe you can kill 2 birds without much more total spend than renting a truck and trailer.

For your phase question on the grinder, yes and no. If that's an automatic machine you have two motors to spin, the spindle motor and the feed motor. In many cases that feed motor is hydraulic. I think in the case of a No2 it's a flat belt setup. Either way it's generally not recommended to run multiple motors off a single VFD concurrently. So yes "all you would need...is a VFD" but, to operate the spindle AND the feed motor, you'd want 2 VFDs. Or a single phase convertor.
 
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