Recommendation? Milling machine for cleaning/'grinding' damascus

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Pekey

Joined
Jul 24, 2019
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Hello guys,

I am making some smaller batches of ladder damascus billets. I use press method, where I press pattern into billet and then I must grind excessive material with 9" angle grinder.

This method is very time consuming, so I want to ask...

If I get a strong milling machine, is it possible to clean this excessive scaled material more easily and faster? I know it can be used for making material nice and flat, which is great too.

For this purpose, what would be ideal setup? Can someone please share his experience or opinion with this job? I can choose old machines from 1hp to 5hp at reasonable price, but due to space limitations, I would incline to 1-2hp. Do you think it will be enough strong for this job? How much speed can I expect from for example 1hp machine, will it be big step up from my 3hp angle grinder or the opposite?

I have zero experience in machining work, so I will be much thankful for any insight from more experienced fellas here.

Thanks!
 
in some ways its going ot be more abouot RPM the mill turns. in FS wizard its telling me driving a 1/2" 4 flute carbide shold be 1600ish rpm 1.33HP 17 inch per min feed. a 3" face mill 5 inserts calls for 260rpm and over 6hp feed is 7 inch per min (these are mostly proper speeds and feeds for pro shops) the way to get around the HP needs are limit depth of cut or speed of feed
i have a "high speed" bridgeport that tops out at 5600 rpm and thats handy for smaller carbide cutters. whaat style of mill are you looking at horz. or vert. how big a bar are you thinkning about cleaning
 
I am looking for vertical or universal mill with vertical setup. Biggest limitation for me is size, as I have small door to my shop(3feet wide). There is one other option, I can put it in my barn where I have concrete floor, but it is impossible to heat up in winter, and the floor is not perfectly leveled. Do you think these machines can operate in freezing temperature or would I be running some risks with it? And if floor is not perfect, is possible to just put something under one side of machine and level it? I know it is amateur, but if it could get me through winter, next year I can make proper space.

Typical billet: 14"x1,75" , and ridges from pressing pattern are about 0.1" deep at each side, so that needs to be removed. I do about 5-10 billets before cleaning. I want to do some stainless too, so I guess that is harder to mill.

Thank you for examples and FS wizard application! What is depth of cut in these examples, I mean how many passes must be made to get through 0.1" of material(annealed tool steel).

Do you think face mill is best for this job? If I had 2" face mill on 5-6hp machine, can you please roughly estimate time for one billet. I guess on 2hp machines face mill is not an option.
 
Pekey said:
And if floor is not perfect, is possible to just put something under one side of machine and level it?
Click to expand...
Of course it's possible. This is something you'll have to do with any new piece of equipment you acquire.
It's also possible to dig out the high side instead of propping up the low side to make it level.
 
I've used a face mill on a 2HP machine on a piece of RR track. It is very slow going, not something I would recommend on the regular. A power feed on the X axis is a really nice thing to have.

When we moved into our new house a few years ago, I got massive rust on all my tools that had cast iron tables in the winter. There would be drops of water on the surfaces in the morning. I put a dehumidifier in the shop and have since upgraded that to a minisplit. Never had a problem like that in the garage of my previous house, but it stayed a good bit warmer being attached directly to the house. Just something to watch out for if you do decide to put the mill into an unconditioned barn over the winter.
 
if you put the FS app on your phone you can change DOC and that will use less HP. really a dam handy app to have in the shop cause of all the different ops and material choices

went back and speced a 3" 5 tooth 300rpm 10 inch a min feed i speced the DOC at .05 cause you will be in an interupted cut not he full .1 in the cut at any one time HP needed with those specs under 2hp
 
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Hubert, how deep did you go on RR track? What diameter face mill and how many tooth on it? According to FS app, with 2hp machine and 2" face mill with 5 teeth, should be possible to feed 5"/min with 0.2" DOC. It dont sound too bad to me.

Butcher, this is good news, it means clean cutting time for one side of billet is about 1 minute with 2" face mill. So cleaning one billet can be about 10min with squaring sides etc. and getting nice flat material.

What about these issues:
Coolant - is it necessary to use it?

Working the machine in freezing temperature - is there any other problem than water condensation and coolant freezing? I hope I can deal with little bit of rust next year if it happens, now I am in love with this machine and must have it haha.

What problems to look for when looking at second hand machine, where could usually be some hidden problems?
 
Pekey said:
Hubert, how deep did you go on RR track? What diameter face mill and how many tooth on it? According to FS app, with 2hp machine and 2" face mill with 5 teeth, should be possible to feed 5"/min with 0.2" DOC. It dont sound too bad to me.

Butcher, this is good news, it means clean cutting time for one side of billet is about 1 minute with 2" face mill. So cleaning one billet can be about 10min with squaring sides etc. and getting nice flat material.

What about these issues:
Coolant - is it necessary to use it?

Working the machine in freezing temperature - is there any other problem than water condensation and coolant freezing? I hope I can deal with little bit of rust next year if it happens, now I am in love with this machine and must have it haha.

What problems to look for when looking at second hand machine, where could usually be some hidden problems?
Click to expand...
Pekey, the problem was not the power. I used a 2" face mill, I don't remember the number of inserts, probably five or six. This was on a relatively small mill (PM30MV) and I was a bit concerned that it might shake itself apart. I think I ended up taking about 20 thou per pass. I am not a machinist, so I might be doing it all wrong, but I really did not like the noises it was making when taking deeper cuts.
 
I have a bridgeport in the size you'd probably need. 36" table old "m-head." They are small milling machines. By small I mean 1800+ pounds. I would never want to attempt to hog off a huge volume of steel that wasn't anneal-soft. I hog out 416SS liners 1/8" at a time but I wouldnt do that with any blade steel. I'd want a TON of stability. Perhaps this may be easier with a full size modern machine that can take much larger R8 tooling. Mine is limited to 1/2" shank tooling.

IMHO you're gonna want a BIG mill to hog steel in the way you describe. Would a surface grinder perhaps be better for this?

Note: I'm a hack machinist. I feed at the rate that sounds, feels the best and puts out the chips that look right. Perhaps all this is much better achieved with a more complete machinists understanding of what my machine can do, a modern powerfeed machine, etc etc.
 
isnt it funny how even at 1800lb machinists talk about how much they flex and some times like to call them birdports. i for years on my mini mill went by sound and finish (and not tring to brake stuff) the fs app has been fantasting for me gettign smoother cut and longer life from end mills
i think if i wass working this out i wodul angle grind the worst of it to get it close squarer the edges for good clamping action use 2 vises on the table for less bar overhang. the cutter i woudl try first would likely be 1/2 carbide that could cut all the scale and whats left of the ridge in like 4 lines on the bar no coolant (on an older mill i would not climb cut )
 
Hubert, I looked up your mill and understand you were cautious, 600lbs machine probably does not have enough weight/stability for hogging steel in big passes. That is why I am looking at 3000+ lbs machines now, because many companies are getting rid of them for relatively cheap price. I even found one 13hp, 5500 lbs machine for about 3000usd and some tooling included. Just not sure my circuits can take it haha

12345678910, thanks for tip, I will keep it in mind when the time comes.

David Schott, I am sorry to hear that even at this weight it can cause problems.
About surface grinder, I am not sure how it would solve problem of hogging steel. I don't know much about them, but I thought they are used for final levelling and surfacing material. Can it be used in same way as angle grinder too?

butcher_block, thank you, that is great practical knowledge about this app.
Can you explain what you mean by using two vises and what is the advantage to one vise? I dont get it, but as I said I have zero experience. When the machine is enough stable, can be same work done with 2" face mill as with 1/2", but in one pass?

I saw that some guys usi cup grinding wheel on milling machine to achieve very nice finish, almost same as from surface grinder. Does someone have some info about this method, and how are the results?

What do you guys think about using this maching under freezing point temperature, is there some risk other than rusting?
 
any over hang is going to vibrate using a gang of vices gives a more stable bar / cut and cutter life. if you opt for table clamps on the bar that would, be a bit different
 
I Would not use a mill to clean up Damascus. I would do like Salem and I do. Use a cup wheel to knock off the nasty stuff and the. Toss it on the surface grinder with a roughing belt and rip that top layer off quick.
 
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