Millit Made Knives

[SpySmasher]

For a few months I've been meaning to make a thread where we can discuss Millit and the knives they produce, along the lines of the WE thread. They were founded in 2011 by some ex-CRK guys.

OEM Work​

It has seemed to me for a while that they could be on the verge of becoming the go-to U.S.-based OEM for high-end production/midtech knives. The Stateside counterpart to Reate and WE. They may already be there. You don't really hear much about any other U.S.-based OEMs being talked about.

They've done work for Koenig, Gavko, the Hawks, Panchenko, Brous, Massdrop and others.

My experience with Millit is in this realm. I own both the G&G Hawk MUDD Midtech and the G&G Hawk/TAD Dauntless. Both knives are built to the highest production quality. The equal of any WE or Reate.

Original Designs​

They've also produced a couple of folders and fixed blades under their own brand. Of these, the TJ Schwartz-designed Torrent seems to have been the biggest hit. It certainly had the biggest impact on the internet as reviewers like NickShabazz gave it high marks.

The are also well-known for their aftermarket clips for CRK knives. As far as I know, this is where they got their start. What not everyone may know is that they got into a dispute with CRK about these clips. CRK didn't like that Millit offered a "spa" service for CRK knives and threatened lawsuits over the clip designs. As a result, Millit dropped the spa service and CRK allowed them to continue the clip sales unimpeded.

Growing Pains?​

My third experience with Millit will be the Massdrop & TJ Schwartz Perpetua folder, for which Millit served as OEM. This knife was originally scheduled (if I recall properly) for delivery in May of this year. It's now being scheduled for September, the fourth announced delay in production. At least one of these delays was blamed on a materials supplier and at least one delay on additional work asked for by Massdrop that wasn't in the original plan.

I also noticed that there was a delay in the announced schedule for a re-run of the Hawk/Panchenko Orbit.

It occurs to me that these production delays could be a sign of a company struggling to keep up with more work than they are actually prepared to do. That, of course, is the kind of problem you want to have as long as you can keep everyone's good will.

Millit & Survive!​

I don't really want to deal with this issue but during the end of the Survive! saga on BF, some people expressed their opinion that Millit's reputation was "tainted" by their association with Survive! At the time of the announcement of that association, I think most of us assumed that they were doing OEM work for Survive! However, in the subsequent months since that announcement there have been indications that they might have been sharing shop space and equipment.

A few days ago Millit posted a Survive!-related message on Instagram:

For all those that have asked, YES we are still working with@surviveknives In fact, we work closely with them everyday. Designing and developing the best fixtures, processes, and procedures to ensure they no longer run into MFG inconsistencies like they have in the past. Wish you all could step inside and see the time and energy that is being invested to ensure that happens!

So I asked them:

When you say "working with," what do you mean exactly? Are you sharing a shop? Personnel? Do you work for them as an OEM in any capacity? Advisory only? Are you invested in Survive financially?

They replied:

All of the above are correct, except for the financially invested part. We have joined forces.

I thanked them for the information.

I don't want this to be a Survive! thread but I feel like it must be fair game for people to debate the ethics of this relationship. We debate the ethics of this industry all the time. Personally, I'm hoping that Millit comes out of this with their (seemingly) positive reputation intact.

 

[unwisefool]

A) that's weird about the relationship with Survive but I wish millit the best

B) you are going to have to post up some pics of the dauntless and MUDD so I can drool over them

 

[b00n]

There is also apparently some bad blood between Koenig and Millit, although I don't know the details. Honestly I think Millit is shooting themselves in the foot, I don't see them needing the work that badly given that they are seemingly busy, and associating themselves with a company that has tainted their own reputation seems like a bad move. Since I doubt Survive in a financial situation to throw money at Millit in amounts that makes it worthwhile and at best would be a zero sum game.

 

[Psybull]

For a few months I've been meaning to make a thread where we can discuss Millit and the knives they produce, along the lines of the WE thread. They were founded in 2011 by some ex-CRK guys.

OEM Work​

It has seemed to me for a while that they could be on the verge of becoming the go-to U.S.-based OEM for high-end production/midtech knives. The Stateside counterpart to Reate and WE. They may already be there. You don't really hear any other U.S.-based OEMs being talked about.

They've done work for Koenig, Gavko, the Hawks, Pachenko, Brous, Massdrop and others.

My experience with Millit is in this realm. I own both the G&G Hawk MUDD Midtech and the G&G Hawk/TAD Dauntless. Both knives are built to the highest production quality. The equal of any WE or Reate.

Original Designs​

They've also produced a couple of folders and fixed blades under their own brand. Of these, the TJ Schwartz-designed Torrent seems to have been the biggest hit. It certainly had the biggest impact on the internet as reviewers like NickShabazz gave it high marks.

The are also well-known for their aftermarket clips for CRK knives. As far as I know, this is where they got their start. What not everyone may know is that they got into a dispute with CRK about these clips. CRK didn't like that Millit offered a "spa" service for CRK knives and threatened lawsuits over the clip designs. As a result, Millit dropped the spa service and CRK allowed them to continue the clip sales unimpeded.

Growing Pains?​

My third experience with Millit will be the Massdrop & TJ Schwartz Perpetua folder, for which Millit served as OEM. This knife was originally scheduled (if I recall properly) for delivery in May of this year. It's now being scheduled for September, the fourth announced delay in production. At least one of these delays was blamed on a materials supplier and at least one delay on additional work asked for by Massdrop that wasn't in the original plan.

I also noticed that there was a delay in the announced schedule for a re-run of the Hawk/Pachenko orbit.

It occurs to me that these production delays could be a sign of a company struggling to keep up with more work than they are actually prepared to do. That, of course, is the kind of problem you want to have as long as you can keep everyone's good will.

Millit & Survive!​

I don't really want to deal with this issue but during the end of the Survive! saga on BF, some people expressed their opinion that Millit's reputation was "tainted" by their association with Survive! At the time of the announcement of that association, I think most of us assumed that they were doing OEM work for Survive! However, in the subsequent months since that announcement there have been indications that they might have been sharing shop space and equipment.

A few days ago Millit posted a Survive!-related message on Instagram:



So I asked them:



They replied:



I thanked them for the information.

I don't want this to be a Survive! thread but I feel like it must be fair game for people to debate the ethics of this relationship. We debate the ethics of this industry all the time. Personally, I'm hoping that Millit comes out of this with their (seemingly) positive reputation intact.

I bet 6 months from now we all will know the answer to this, so why put the cart ahead of the horse?
Hopefully they know what they are doing and it all works out, if not they will be done with S/K!.

 

[Rival1314]

the Millit & Hawk mid-tech offerings have been amazing pieces, I have all 3 so far. The fit and finish is easily on par with Reate, and all three of the hawk knives are much more mechanically complex. Keep in mind these builds each use different variations of the Hawk Lock mechanism. In the case of the Orbit, they created a completely new detent system....there aren't many manufacturers anywhere that are doing things like that on a small batch ore even full production scale.

TAT/Hawk Dauntless

Hawk/Panchenko Orbit

Hawk MUDD

 

[Hackenslash]

I've been worried ever since I heard Millit was tangled up with !Surv!ve!

I have zero evidence to support it, but I wonder if the relationship with survive could have something to do with the Massdrop Perpetua delays. I'm one of the folks waiting for my knife. Original ship date was June of 18, now targeting mid-September. An interesting thing about the Perpetua, to my knowledge it's the first legit, non-Benchmade, non-cloner use of the Axis lock.

I know it may be heresy, but I love the Millit clips for CRK. Just got this one back to put on my knife. I'm also a little concerned about the number of clips that are being offered for sale of late...
View attachment 967520

 

[buckfynn]

Nice write up on Millit, SpySmasher .

 

[danbot]

Interesting backstory on this company SpySmasher . Sounds like they overstepped a boundary with CRK, but worked things out amicably. Lesson learned.
Hopefully they can teach Survive! a thing or two about business and get things turned around with them.

 

[BilboBaggins]

I have the Dauntless, the Orbit, and the MUDD. I also have one of their clips for my ti-lock. I have been both impressed with their work and completely satisfied with their knives. I can only hope that if anyone can pull Survive out of their tailspin, it would be Millit. I don't have a horse in that race as I don't buy fixed blades, but I hope that those who have given Survive their money get made whole.

There is currently a reddit thread on what may be going on with them and Koenig. I emphasize may since I have no earthly idea what's actually going on other than some cryptic Instagram posts.

I believe they also made the parts for the Hawk knives MUDD auto, the Hawk Pony and Slimline fixed blades, and I believe the Hawks' current plan is to use them when they take the Deadlock into "midtech" territory. Time will tell. I hope the Orbit delays, the Survive association, and whatever is happening with Koenig aren't a reflection of where Millit is going, but as long as they continue to produce knives I want at a high level, they will keep me as a customer.

 

[GermanyChris]

There is also apparently some bad blood between Koenig and Millit, although I don't know the details. Honestly I think Millit is shooting themselves in the foot, I don't see them needing the work that badly given that they are seemingly busy, and associating themselves with a company that has tainted their own reputation seems like a bad move. Since I doubt Survive in a financial situation to throw money at Millit in amounts that makes it worthwhile and at best would be a zero sum game.

I think the relationship is Millits way of getting Survive it’s designs, and assets on the cheap. When Survive can’t pay them anymore they can just take possession of the equipment with a mechanics lean which will starve them into bankruptcy in a matter of weeks.

Survive then comes back as a production line of millit and pays the bills and the brain trust can go do fun stuff

 

[Popsickle]

There is also apparently some bad blood between Koenig and Millit, although I don't know the details. Honestly I think Millit is shooting themselves in the foot, I don't see them needing the work that badly given that they are seemingly busy, and associating themselves with a company that has tainted their own reputation seems like a bad move. Since I doubt Survive in a financial situation to throw money at Millit in amounts that makes it worthwhile and at best would be a zero sum game.

Millit seems to make a great product, but after seeing them publicly call out Koenig..... I’ve decided to stay away.

As far as the survive knives people.... they were very good to me years ago when I placed an order and later had to cancel. They mistakenly still shipped me the order, and when I had told them our home burnt to the ground and couldn’t afford it at the moment, they told me to keep the knife. I believe it was a GSO 4 in M390. It ended up being a free give away at a local get together.

 

[BladeScout]

The company never really was on my radar and Ive never been much into products from the other firms mentioned (Koenig, Gavko, the Hawks, Brous, Massdrop),* so the Survive angle doesnt bother me.
After reading the OP, I just wish both companies the best and hope that Survive can learn a thing or two.

*The exception being Serge PaNchenko (at least I assume its that Panchenko with an 'n' times two. There might be a knifemaker who is spelled with only one n).

I've been worried ever since I heard Millit was tangled up with !Surv!ve!

I have zero evidence to support it, but I wonder if the relationship with survive could have something to do with the Massdrop Perpetua delays. I'm one of the folks waiting for my knife. Original ship date was June of 18, now targeting mid-September. An interesting thing about the Perpetua, to my knowledge it's the first legit, non-Benchmade, non-cloner use of the Axis lock.

I know it may be heresy, but I love the Millit clips for CRK. Just got this one back to put on my knife. I'm also a little concerned about the number of clips that are being offered for sale of late...
View attachment 967520

Thats a good looking clip.

 

[Mo2]

They just had an Instagram stories showing a few boxes of old Koenig blades and scales unpaid for. Guess they have some kind of beef.

 

[NickShabazz]

I too am a bit perplexed and concerned that they've fallen in with SURVIVE!, but I'm hoping it's a marriage of convenience and not of desire. But, I'm a big fan of Millit's recent work, particularly the Torrent and Hawk Dauntless, and so long as they're constantly working on maintaining and improving QC and not biting off more than they can chew, I think they stand a good chance of being around for the long haul.

More crucially, though, I think Millit (and TRM, and other smaller High-end American shops like them) are really important right now. Although I firmly believe quality is about effort, not geography, and I don't consider working with makers overseas to be a problem per se, I'm a bit concerned by the monoculture that's developing among higher-end knife designers using WE and Reate. The sheer number of designers who have gone all-in on overseas high-end manufacturing is kind of frightening, and if WE or Reate were to falter tomorrow (whether due to aggressively hiked rates, falling QC, running out of capacity, business issues, etc...), or if some trade war hit assembled knives or steels or the like, it could easily gut the mid-to-high-end knife market, and leave a lot of great designs without a way to be produced.

Given that Millit appears to be one of few US-based higher-end OEMs who are willing to produce other folks' designs, I really hope that they're able to expand and improve, providing a credible high-end alternative for designers who want to diversify suppliers.

 

[Hackenslash]

I too am a bit perplexed and concerned that they've fallen in with SURVIVE!, but I'm hoping it's a marriage of convenience and not of desire. But, I'm a big fan of Millit's recent work, particularly the Torrent and Hawk Dauntless, and so long as they're constantly working on maintaining and improving QC and not biting off more than they can chew, I think they stand a good chance of being around for the long haul.

More crucially, though, I think Millit (and TRM, and other smaller High-end American shops like them) are really important right now. Although I firmly believe quality is about effort, not geography, and I don't consider working with makers overseas to be a problem per se, I'm a bit concerned by the monoculture that's developing among higher-end knife designers using WE and Reate. The sheer number of designers who have gone all-in on overseas high-end manufacturing is kind of frightening, and if WE or Reate were to falter tomorrow (whether due to aggressively hiked rates, falling QC, running out of capacity, business issues, etc...), or if some trade war hit assembled knives or steels or the like, it could easily gut the mid-to-high-end knife market, and leave a lot of great designs without a way to be produced.

Given that Millit appears to be one of few US-based higher-end OEMs who are willing to produce other folks' designs, I really hope that they're able to expand and improve, providing a credible high-end alternative for designers who want to diversify suppliers.

Thanks for sounding off, Nick. I know you like to downplay your influence in the knife world, but you have a lot despite your protestations to the contrary. I, for one, am glad you’re aware and watching.

 

[Ryanol]

People don't want to pay extra for American made and they don't want to wait. It's a tough spot to be in if your a small job shop.

Outfits like millit and Halpern and the boys up in escanaba can only crank out so much product while keeping the QC levels up. It's real easy to say tool up and hire more employees when your not the one that had to sign the checks. Many a company has met it's demise by over extending themselves chasing growth with little regard for cash flow.

As far as designers going to china - that is crazy to me but if they dangle bigger paydays I can see why it happens.

 

[NickShabazz]

As far as designers going to china - that is crazy to me but if they dangle bigger paydays I can see why it happens.

Bigger paydays, sure. But also lower prices. If a company like, e.g., Ferrum Forge can move to using WE and go from making $500 knives to making $250 knives of the same quality, that makes them much more competitive on price and quality with folks like ZT or Spyderco, and allows many more sales. And frankly, gets their designs into more pockets, which I can see as a pro for many. What I have zero sympathy for are companies that move their production overseas with equal quality, but make no downward shifts on price, or worse still, still claim made in USA. There, it's just a bigger payday for the maker. I'm fine paying a premium for locally made, and fine paying good money for great knives made anywhere, but when you move away from local and keep charging us the same price, you're just ripping us off.

But I didn't mean to threadjack here. Carried the Torrent last night. Great piece.

 

[photoman12001]

I like the Millit CRK clips, but honestly they don’t work as well functionally as the factory clips for me. I only put them in safe queens or stuff I carry in a sheath.

I’d like to get one of the Serge Beans for which they make parts but I haven’t been able to pull the trigger on the recent drops. The price just seems a little much for the end product in my opinion. I got a couple of the Blackfox versions for a 1/10th the price and been happy with them. I’m not opposed to spending that on a knife but I just don’t see the value on that one, for my personal tastes.

I would have gotten on the Perpetua drop if I’d seen it and and I’d really like to snag a Hawk MUDD.

 

[Ryanol]

Bigger paydays, sure. But also lower prices. If a company like, e.g., Ferrum Forge can move to using WE and go from making $500 knives to making $250 knives of the same quality, that makes them much more competitive on price and quality with folks like ZT or Spyderco, and allows many more sales. And frankly, gets their designs into more pockets, which I can see as a pro for many. What I have zero sympathy for are companies that move their production overseas with equal quality, but make no downward shifts on price, or worse still, still claim made in USA. There, it's just a bigger payday for the maker. I'm fine paying a premium for locally made, and fine paying good money for great knives made anywhere, but when you move away from local and keep charging us the same price, you're just ripping us off.

But I didn't mean to threadjack here. Carried the Torrent last night. Great piece.

Admittedly I haven't paid attention to companies like We or Reate- do they have stateside facilities where you can send you knife in for servicing? Can you call them and speak with a service representative that speaks English well enough to convey issues? Will they have the parts necessary to repair your knives in say 15 + years like I routinely see on benchmades Facebook page?

What I see when I look at the Chinese invasion is folks being shortsighted and getting dazzled by shiny things that frankly don't matter like pivot collars or mokuti clips while overlooking things that do matter like long term reputation, customer service and warranty.

 

[b00n]

Admittedly I haven't paid attention to companies like We or Reate- do they have stateside facilities where you can send you knife in for servicing? Can you call them and speak with a service representative that speaks English well enough to convey issues? Will they have the parts necessary to repair your knives in say 15 + years like I routinely see on benchmades Facebook page?

What I see when I look at the Chinese invasion is folks being shortsighted and getting dazzled by shiny things that frankly don't matter like pivot collars or mokuti clips while overlooking things that do matter like long term reputation, customer service and warranty.

Respectfully I find it a little unfair to make assumptions like that. When BM, Spyderco or CRK were new, do you really think people considered "Oh boy, I sure hope in 2012 I still get a new clip or a new pivot for my knife! Otherwise what good is my lifetime warranty and service?" and didn't go more like we go with WE/Reate/Insert New Shiny Company "Oh, that looks like a good knife for the money, I wanna try that after reading good reviews!"

Reate has US Representatives and WE has some in Europe and the US as well. Rike and Kizer don't have any as far I know, but they were available via Email rather quickly if I recall a couple posts on here.

I get your point though, you never know how it is with companies, you might just as well run into CS issues with a company that has been in business for 10+ years just as much as you can with a new company.