Ming Chinese archery costume

C

christcl

Joined
Apr 13, 2004
Messages
438
Finally got around to putting together an authentic ensemble for Chinese archery! I've been an advocate that if my friends and I want to bring awareness to Chinese traditional archery of the Ming and other periods, an authentic period outfit really helps us stand out in addition to shooting strong bows with good technique.

This green silk robe is called a yisa, a Han Chinese version of the Mongolian banquet robe. Despite their strong Han ethnic identity, the Ming definitely retained the fashion of the previous Mongolian dynasty. To reflect their cosmopolitan tastes, my Japanese long sword, Turkic short siyah bow, leather accessories, and nomadic boots would have been familiar to and used by the Ming.

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Ideally I'd want to take pics of this getup at the range or in a Chinese garden. Perhaps next time. I don't plan to wear this regularly. Saving it for traditional archery meets and formal demonstrations.

The yisa really doesn't look right without a wide belt and tall boots, so the leather Anglo-Saxon belt and American riding boots are quick substitutes until I can source more period authentic gear.
 
Very nice, looks like the real deal to me. I'm certainly no authority on the subject.
 
Awesome Christcl! Thanks for sharing. Quite a handsome young man, please don't take that in the wrong way! You must be pretty strong and wirey to master a 165# bow. Great pictures and great share. Certainly fantastic subject matter.
 
Thanks Bigbore, its quite a compliment =)

Archery seems to be one of those sports/martial arts that uses very specialized muscles. Since getting married and working full time, its been hard to go to the gym consistently. I'm down to at home pullups and pushups and running with my GSD whenever I can. But if I were to choose between an hour at the gym or an hour doing archery, hands down I usually pick the latter.

Not quite to #165, but pulling steady at #55-60 range. When well rested, I could pull the #70 Qing for a few good rounds. My mentor can do 60-70 easily. I agree with his mentality that we gotta try to get as close as we can to what the ancients could pull. A #30lb horsebow ain't gonna piece armor, I'm not sure about #60 but its a hell of alot closer to the #80 minimum standard the Yong Zheng Emperor declared to be the minimum for a military bow LOL
 
When I was introduced to archery long long ago by a co worker and we're talking modern compound bows here he invited me to his house to try some bows. He had 3 sons who all hunted archery.
I sensed that I was going to be humiliated as a couple were there.
After some explanations, whys and what for questions, he said I could try them as he had a range in his back yard.
I first requested a bigger back stop as it was my first time.
He offered me to try his youngest sons bow first to "get a feel". I think it was around 55#'s or so. Surprisingly to me and certainly to them I pulled it back to the hold point with ease and actually shot very well.
Before it was over I was shooting his 70# with no trouble.
I think as christl said it's specialized muscles and we determined that I got mine from digging post holes. Since I was a kid I'd helped my dad build fences, and then worked for 10 years myself for a fence company and had just started this job when this happened.
Even though I was one of the smaller guys in high school I could easily beat the biggest guys in arm wrestling too. Apparently a related muscle group?

I ended up with a 75# compound for years and shot regularly. Then slipped a vertabrae or something in my upper back, got all tensed up between the shoulder blades. Had a gal walk on my back which usually helped, you could hear it cracking as she stepped, but she got a little overboard and displaced one. Spent years on a chiropractors bench for relief but the bow just aggravated it terrible.
I tried dialing it down to 50# but wasn't enough.
My son got a bow a few years ago, 70# or so and I couldn't begin to pull that string back, I was rather ashamed of myself to say the least.

Great fun while it lasted.
 
Hey! That looks pretty snazzy! I like it. On a side note, I'm actually giving my Grandson my old 75 pounder to one of the Grandsons today at Thanksgiving dinner. Gratifying to know there's others on this site that like the old ways. Happy Thanksgiving to all.
 
Happy thanksgiving! Hope you all get some range time before thanksgiving dinner with family!
 
Nice setup. Love the quiver and belt! Soon as my triangle box falls apart ill have to think about what to do. Nice to be able to carry a Katana and a Bow. That should be legal to do anywhere on this earth. Wouldnt be many people messing with you on the streets would there? That Bow is some awesome craftsmanship. Id love to watch them being made:thumbup:

Dumb question no.1:
With a short bow like that how do you get your draw length and still have the same anchor point etc. Do you just shoot shorter arrows. I mean how do you keep your bones lined up properly like they say your supposed to while anchored? Bend you elbow more? I have that problem right now because i havent really broken mine in yet and frankly im afraid to pull it back to full draw length. My brace height is just short of 6 inches fwiw.
 
christcl said:
Thanks Bigbore, its quite a compliment =)

Archery seems to be one of those sports/martial arts that uses very specialized muscles. Since getting married and working full time, its been hard to go to the gym consistently. I'm down to at home pullups and pushups and running with my GSD whenever I can. But if I were to choose between an hour at the gym or an hour doing archery, hands down I usually pick the latter.

Not quite to #165........
Click to expand...

I guess that would really be impressive! LOL!
 
There was a facebook challenge going around between international archer friends earlier this year and sword and bow pictures were being posted since, well, its what people carried back in the day. You shot at enemies from a distance and drew your sword if they got too close. I picked my Japanese sword since I've been trained previously in its use and its documented that the Japanese exported hundreds of thousands of swords to Ming China, plus Chinese people have always appreciated Japanese swords. I'm willing to bet the majority of quality, serviceable, forged Japanese style swords being used as martial artist swords are made in Chinese forges today.

There will be folks who might call me out on having a Turkic bow (bow was designed by a Malay Chinese based on a Chinese design mixed with a Turkish design) and Japanese sword, even though its historically documented--I offer this: soldiers and police today all pretty much wear very similar cut and styles of combat uniforms, helmets, ESS or Oakley eye protection, ceramic or kevlar armor. American M4 carbines, German G36s, Israeli Tavors, Belgian FNH SCARs, Russian AK variants, etc. are the service rifles of many different nations. Shall we talk about Glocks, Sigs, CZ, etc. that are side arms to police worldwide? Are they being fake and "stealing culture"? I tend to think the ancients would laugh if they knew folks today have the luxury to argue and get offended at what belongs to who and who made what and used what if it didn't fit their image of what used to be. Also, lets not forget hundreds if not thousands of Nepali made khukuris are imported to American and the rest of the world to be used by anybody and everybody with a need for a good strong blade ;) before anyone calls us out on being wannabe Gurkhas LOL.

ndoghouse, the little bow has a max. draw of 30" which is 2" less than what I'm used to. I use shorter arrows to make sure I don't overdraw. Its alittle shorter than I like so I have to adjust slightly. My anchor point will still be at the same level but I won't be drawing past my ear.
 
People use what they like. That's just how we do things. You've created a setup that may not match the image, but it's pretty close to reality. No issues with that. I mean, if I had to go outside right now with a rifle, pistol, and knife, I'd go out with an American rifle I put together myself, with a pistol designed in Switzerland and built in West Germany, and a kami made Kukri of the same pattern used by Gurkhas in WWII. That's if I didn't need a long-range rifle, which if I needed would be my 100 year old Swiss rifle or my M1 Garand that has parts from Danish armories. It's all stuff I like and am comfortable with, and there's no problem since it's not a reenactment.
 
Exactly!

People traded goods along with ideas and weapons and technology as long as there has been people around.

My rifles are built of a mix of American parts (Mega-Daniel Defense-BCM-AAC-Lantac-Rainier-Vltor-Cross Machine Tool-Fortis-etc), my shotgun is Italian (Benelli), and my pistol is German/Swiss (Sig Sauer). A backup blade would be a HI khukuri or FMA barong or Hmong knife. Even my modern equipment seems to be a cosmopolitan mix like my historic setup lol.
 
christcl said:
Exactly!

People traded goods along with ideas and weapons and technology as long as there has been people around.

My rifles are built of a mix of American parts (Mega-Daniel Defense-BCM-AAC-Lantac-Rainier-Vltor-Cross Machine Tool-Fortis-etc), my shotgun is Italian (Benelli), and my pistol is German/Swiss (Sig Sauer). A backup blade would be a HI khukuri or FMA barong or Hmong knife. Even my modern equipment seems to be a cosmopolitan mix like my historic setup lol.
Click to expand...

Sounds like our tastes are similar. I put together my AR with Palmetto State Armory parts, Magpul furniture, and I like SIG-Sauer, and kukris. Never been much for bow and arrow, but that's just because my first experience with it involved so little training that I spent a lot time having to shoot it and never hitting the target. In the same time period I shot BB guns and shot them extremely well.
 
Nothing gets by Meister Tall! I worked durn hard for that Unicorn. The ground this breed of Unicorn hangs out on pretty much stands up on end. 10 days of trying to sneak up on them critters that ain't the least bit easy to sneak up on.
Great fun, once in a life time experience and excellent to eat too. I was quite surprised, very good.

That was a buddies hat, lost mine climbing up the side of the mountain and it fell a fur piece. I knew where I got it, figured it would be easier to go get another one than climb down and try to retrieve it.
 
Interesting note not to detract from your thread which I love by the way.
At the time of that hunt my bow was set at 75#. I was shooting about 60 to 80 arrows a day. I was shooting kneeling, sitting, even laying down.
I even practiced shooting out the window of my pickup. There's a few bears up on that mountain too, in fact we usually slept in their beds, flat ground was at a premium up there.

I was comfortable hitting at 60 yards nearly every time but knew there was no way I would shoot game that far although I've tracked several animals where other (morons) did so.
I set my limit at 40 but figured if everything was perfect I'd reach out to 50. After seeing and stalking and getting close every single day, sometimes more than once in a day it finally came together and got a just under 40 yard shot.

First day we arrived one of my partners, had two, I had the only tag, was completely done in and wanted to just stay in camp just below a ridge. It was a big bowl actually. The other partner and I wanted to scout a bit and of course saw goats on the opposite side of the dish. Long story short we went over the back side and around and tried to come at them from above, they spooked and ran around the bowl and right through camp. First partner was sure they were coming for him. The literally ran through the little lean to we'd built at full speed of course.

It was like that everyday, great fun, easy to see them, could have got a dozen with a rifle but the bow. A might more challenging.
 
Ah, I've never hunted but if I had to then I'd use the strongest now I can confidently shoot well with.

Most of my shooting is done at home so it's like Kyudo practice with a straw makiwara bale.

The Chinese have something very similar called a gaozhen.

Who influenced who I'm not sure, but a straw reusable target aint exactly nuclear physics.

I use a Rhino Rhinehart XL mounted on a similar wooden mount.

At the range I can comfortably shoot groups out to 30 yards.
 
I remember buying my first bales of target back stops. I got 3. I went in, just said I needed 3 bales of hay. OK, went and loaded and went inside to pay and it was like 75 bucks!!!
I'm like what the heck, 75 bucks. The guy at the counter asked what I was feeding. I told him of course I wasn't feeding nothing, I was shooting arrows.
Apparently they at gave me some first quality 1st cutting super high grade alfalpha. Guy says straw would do?

Like 12 bucks for all 3. The first stuff was very dense though, you'd never shoot an arrow through it.
Straw, every once in awhile one might slip through. I had an old canvas tarp hung up from some trees for a second barrier. Never got past that.
 
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