Minimum tooling for Slipjoints

B

Brian.Evans

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Well, part of my steel order from Aldo was some 3/32 A2. I'd like to take part in the madness that is slipjoint making. I've been reading and reading and looking at pictures and various tutorials all over the Internet, but the more I read, the more questions I have.

Today I bought an old Schrade Walden Grafting slip to take apart and use for a pattern. The blade is mostly shot, so there's no hope of restoring it. However, I can make a pretty close replica of this shadow pattern folder.

So here's my question; what are the drill bits and assorted items I need to do this right.
There looks to be 3/32" and 3/16" pins so I'm assuming a #43 bit and a 3/32" ream, and a #13 bit and a 3/16" ream would work? What about a countersink to chamfer the holes so the peened ends have somewhere to sit? Which one? Anything else I absolutely must have? I'm not planning on using a bushing, just for information.

Can I use plain brass rod for the pins and pivot? I've never actually seen anyone say. It sounds like such a dumb question typing it, but I guess I need to know.

I'm just ready to learn the slipjoint art. It seems to combine my love of knives and mechanical stuff. It also seems to satisfy my desire to have very difficult hobbies. Lol I figure by the time I've made 100 or so I might understand them a little. :)
 
Yes, you can use brass or nickel silver rod for pins.
various sizes are available at www.mcmaster.com or a local hobby shop. Use whatever drill bit the rod you choose fits. you can countersink with a larger drill bit, Dremel ball burr, or even a sharp pocket knife.
You'll need a very small hammer-2 oz. maximum, files, a small anvil, & a vise.
 
Ive made about a dozen slipjoints and lockbacks. and a couple of linerlocks. for the slipjoints and lockbacks, I just used 1/8" brass rod from homedepot for all three pins, pivot, and either both spring pins, or the lock bar and both spacer pins. used a 1/8" drill bit, and either sanded the outside of the pins to fit, or wallowed out the holes with the 1/8 bit.

I had wondered if the 1/8 brass would be to weak for rough use, but I was showing a couple friends one that came out too "sloppy" it was a single blade lockback, with brass liners and bolsters, and white paper micarta scales, was telling them how I was going to test it to desrtuction since it didnt come out right, and one of them grabbed it and said he wouldnt let me do that to that pretty of a knife.

he works heavy construction, building roads and ponds, and such. didnt see that knife for 5 years. then on an antelope hunt, he pulled it out to clean his fingernails. boy had he tested that thing! the blade was about 1/4" sharpened away. but the pin was just as tight as when he stole it from me, lock was still just as tight {floppy}. some of the things he tld me he did with it was amazing that it had held up considering the relatively soft brass pivot pin, and the blade was only about 2.5" long.


for the tools, in adition to what bill said, I'd add either jbweld or torch and solder for the bolsters, sandpaper and plate glass, or piece of granite tile for something to get things really flat. and some shim stock for when you are peening the pins, shim stock, piece of a pop can, ect...
 
Do you have a surface grinder to create the sizes you need? If not you can take the metal out and have it done at a machine shop. Frank
 
I only have a couple seconds, so I'll write more later.

Joe, I'm going to do a shadow pattern for my first few, so no bolsters. Thanks for the story though, makes me feel better. What made your lock floppy?

Frank, I'm going to be using precision ground stuff. Would I still need a surface grinder?

Bill, first, that knife that's on the main screen of your website is amazingly beautiful. I stared at it for a long time. I have a 2 and an 8 oz I use for razor work. I also have a old sledge hammer head I use as a small anvil.

It seems like I've been way over thinking this. I have a marble tile I use as a surface plate. Brass rod I have. I will need drill bits anyway, so I will get those.
 
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Oh one other thing, the only experience I have peening is on straight razors and on those the rivet is rounded above the washer. On a knife is it just mushroomed out into the countersunk area then sanded flat? I want to make sure I get all these niggling questions answered before I get going. Thanks to everyone for being so patient.
 
the fit of the lock bar in the blade was too loose for my tastes. was still plety strong, but there was a little movement when the blade was in locked position, and I didnt like it.

as long as you get a good mushroom in the countersunk area, you can either sand it flat with the handle material, or leave it rounded, depends on the look you want.
 
For slipjoint tooling, I would consider getting at minimum the following. I've used all this just getting started. I think you'll find that making slipjoints is very difficult. I personally think they are 2-3X harder than liner locks and not nearly as forgiving in their precision.

-Indicators to tram your mill
-A good machinist's vice
-Clamping kit for your table
-Variety of endmills
-Set of parallels
-Optional rotary table for milling pivot washers into liners..you can also freehand them
-Edge finder
 
I made a handful of slipjoints about a year ago, then moved, and am in the process of building some new tools and setting up my shop. I plan on starting up again soon.

I, like you, planned on making shadows to start, which I think is smart, as you don't have to worry about soldering bolsters or milling integral bolster/liner combos. I also started by using paper, linen and canvas micartas as handle material because they are not prone to cracking like bone, and are much more affordable than wood. Also, micartas are flat on both faces of the matrial, making accurately drilling your pin and pivot holes that much more accurate.

For liners and pins, I started by using nickel silver, but I also experimented with stainless steel. I found nickel silver to be softer and therefore infinitely easier to peen when used for pins. I think brass is even softer than nickel silver, so while it may not hold up as well over time as stainless (Menefee sometimes even uses titanium for his pivots on his shadow patterns), it will make putting the knife together a heck of a lot easier.

I used O1 over A2 because there's a ton of literature on the forums and elsewhere on heat treating, and it's readily available in precision ground form. A2 seems easy enough, though you'll need two large blocks of aluminum to set the blade and spring in between when they come out of your oven/forge for plate quench (A2 is air quenched). O1 is oil quenched, so all you need is a tin can filled with oil @ 140 degrees for quenching the steel.

So those are the actual knife materials I used. As for tools:
-drill press (I started with an old craftsman bench drill from the 40s. I've since upgraded to a floor standing Atlas drill from the 50s)
-drill bits (I didn't use reamers at first, but I plan on doing so from now on)
-1x42 belt sander (I'm in the process of building a variable speed disc sander so I can get things really flat and square.)
-Portable band saw with a small cutting table bolted onto it for cutting out blades and springs
-Bench vise (and workbench)
-9 x 12 granite machinist's plate (and lots of wet dry sandpaper ranging from 240-600 grit)
-Small hammer for peening pins (as mentioned earlier, 2 ounce or so)
-Shim Stock (3-5 thousandths of an inch. the stock is inserted on either side of the blade while peening your pivot pin. Once you're done peening, remove the shim stock and you'll be guaranteed to not have binded the blade)
-Files to adjust the kick on the tange where the spring lands.
-Sharpies and/or layout fluid, carbide scribe
-2 brick forge I made, and propane burner setup
-GOOGLE SKETCHUP (a super easy way to mess around with designing your own slipjoints)

I'll add more if I think of anything. Good luck and have fun.
 
That knife you mentioned was made with:
4 X 6 bandsaw, 2 X 72 grinder, a propane torch, files, flexible shaft machine, jewelers saw, sandpaper, and a buffer.
Materials: cow horn, 1095 steel, brass liners and pins, nickel silver bolsters and buttons.
Folding knives don't really require sophisticated machinery, but having it helps.
 
David Schott said:
For slipjoint tooling, I would consider getting at minimum the following. I've used all this just getting started. I think you'll find that making slipjoints is very difficult. I personally think they are 2-3X harder than liner locks and not nearly as forgiving in their precision.

-Indicators to tram your mill
-A good machinist's vice
-Clamping kit for your table
-Variety of endmills
-Set of parallels
-Optional rotary table for milling pivot washers into liners..you can also freehand them
-Edge finder
Click to expand...

Unfortunately David, I don't even know what most of that stuff is. I'm going to hold off making an intregal until I have the ability to mill.

Personally I'd rather it take 25 slipjoints to get it right than 5 linerlocks. I just like slippies. I have zero doubts that my first 10-15 knives are going to have big issues, but it doesn't bother me. I'm not looking for .001 precision in three positions at first, I'm just copying a decent knife's spring and blade setup. I might eventually but some plans an make a more modern folder, but for now I'll just copy an existing design.
 
Bill DeShivs said:
That knife you mentioned was made with:
4 X 6 bandsaw, 2 X 72 grinder, a propane torch, files, flexible shaft machine, jewelers saw, sandpaper, and a buffer.
Materials: cow horn, 1095 steel, brass liners and pins, nickel silver bolsters and buttons.
Folding knives don't really require sophisticated machinery, but having it helps.
Click to expand...

Well it's gorgeous! Very beautiful stuff.

I'm looking at probably micarta or G10 and brass or stainless liners for my first.
 
Matt Browning said:
I made a handful of slipjoints about a year ago, then moved, and am in the process of building some new tools and setting up my shop. I plan on starting up again soon.

I, like you, planned on making shadows to start, which I think is smart, as you don't have to worry about soldering bolsters or milling integral bolster/liner combos. I also started by using paper, linen and canvas micartas as handle material because they are not prone to cracking like bone, and are much more affordable than wood. Also, micartas are flat on both faces of the matrial, making accurately drilling your pin and pivot holes that much more accurate.

For liners and pins, I started by using nickel silver, but I also experimented with stainless steel. I found nickel silver to be softer and therefore infinitely easier to peen when used for pins. I think brass is even softer than nickel silver, so while it may not hold up as well over time as stainless (Menefee sometimes even uses titanium for his pivots on his shadow patterns), it will make putting the knife together a heck of a lot easier.

I used O1 over A2 because there's a ton of literature on the forums and elsewhere on heat treating, and it's readily available in precision ground form. A2 seems easy enough, though you'll need two large blocks of aluminum to set the blade and spring in between when they come out of your oven/forge for plate quench (A2 is air quenched). O1 is oil quenched, so all you need is a tin can filled with oil @ 140 degrees for quenching the steel.

So those are the actual knife materials I used. As for tools:
-drill press (I started with an old craftsman bench drill from the 40s. I've since upgraded to a floor standing Atlas drill from the 50s)
-drill bits (I didn't use reamers at first, but I plan on doing so from now on)
-1x42 belt sander (I'm in the process of building a variable speed disc sander so I can get things really flat and square.)
-Portable band saw with a small cutting table bolted onto it for cutting out blades and springs
-Bench vise (and workbench)
-9 x 12 granite machinist's plate (and lots of wet dry sandpaper ranging from 240-600 grit)
-Small hammer for peening pins (as mentioned earlier, 2 ounce or so)
-Shim Stock (3-5 thousandths of an inch. the stock is inserted on either side of the blade while peening your pivot pin. Once you're done peening, remove the shim stock and you'll be guaranteed to not have binded the blade)
-Files to adjust the kick on the tange where the spring lands.
-Sharpies and/or layout fluid, carbide scribe
-2 brick forge I made, and propane burner setup
-GOOGLE SKETCHUP (a super easy way to mess around with designing your own slipjoints)

I'll add more if I think of anything. Good luck and have fun.
Click to expand...

Matt, I'm going to send out all my heat treat, I just don't have the ability to do it yet. I chose A2 because Texas Knife can do it cheaply, and I don't have a VFD on my grinder, so I have to be able to grind close to finished dimensions.

The 1/16" nickel silver I use for razor pins I softer than any 1/16" brass rod. Don't know about bigger rods.
 
Medicevans, I am in the same spot as you, ready to make some slip joints. I'm glad you started this thread. It has helped me already. One great resource is one from one of the best slip joint makers that ever lived HERE under tutorials. I think as someone above stated you don't need all the fancy equipment to make them but it probably makes life easier. I use a 1x42 for all of my knives right now until I get the cash to spring for a 2x72 and I do have a variable speed disc grinder. Please keep us updated on your progress when you start.
 
If nickel silver is softer than the brass, then brass should definitely be fine. Most slipjoint makers seem to use 1/8" rod for their pivot pins when making shadows, especially shadows that don't utilize bushings. Sending out for heat treat means you have fewer things to buy, but heat reating carbon steels isn't impossible and can be a fun aspect of the whole process. Once you get comfortable with the construction, expanding your authorship to include heat treating could be a good second step.
 
Thanks JO. I liked Don Robinson's stuff over on Knifenetwork, Chris Crawford and Bill Vining both have nice tutorials too.

I hope to be able to actually do a WIP when I get started. Hope the steel comes tomorrow. :)
 
I hadn't, but I have now! Great stuff. Thanks for pointing him out to me. I am going to take this Schrade apart tomorrow and start making patterns. Hopefully it all works out, as I'm going to be working fairly low tech.
 
My next big project will be to learn slipjoints.

I picked up Chris Crawford's slipjoint video - there are a lot of good tips and I'm pretty sure it saved me way more than it cost (i.e. in materials and in frustration). The jig descriptions alone are worth the price of the video.
 
Maybe should get a newbie slipjoint build together. My email is medicevans@ gmail.com if anyone is interested email me.
 
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