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Minority report

B

brianv

Gold Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2012
Messages
856
The following is strickly my opinion.

I will fully acknowlege that I am probably, make that undoubtedly, in the minority. Yes, the cross bar lock is good and safe lock. It seems though that at one point Benchmade folders were exclusively cross bar locks with perhaps one or two exceptions. Now that the patent has run out at least ten more companies have jumped on the cross bar lock bandwagon.

Just another reason why modern pocket knives leave me cold and uninterested.
 
I don't follow, but no one is going to confuse me with the sharpest knife in the drawer. So a lock is good and effective and safe (which I agree with regarding the Axis), but as soon as other companies can use it freely it makes it uninteresting? Why would a knife company not make a knife that uses a proven and effective lock? Cold Steel uses the Triad on a lot of knives. You can already see the new locks they are messing around with because the Triad's patent is running out soon, and boy howdy are a LOT of knife companies gonna jump on that one. That's one of the most effective and secure locks ever devised.
 
brianv said:
The following is strickly my opinion.

I will fully acknowlege that I am probably, make that undoubtedly, in the minority. Yes, the cross bar lock is good and safe lock. It seems though that at one point Benchmade folders were exclusively cross bar locks with perhaps one or two exceptions. Now that the patent has run out at least ten more companies have jumped on the cross bar lock bandwagon.

Just another reason why modern pocket knives leave me cold and uninterested.
Click to expand...

I mean, ok?

Crossbar locks are fantastic. Strong enough to hold up to most uses for a pocket knife, and they allow you to open and close the blade without needing to put your fingers in the path of a blade slinging closed.

If those features leave you "cold and uninterested"...I mean, good for you, I guess?
 
The dude who designed the AFCK said the axis lock is unsafe...just to throw some spice in your life

"if the Axis is the one they showed me then you can bet your LIFE it can easily close by accident by your fingers inadvertently hitting the release."

Brigadier

Thread 'Chris Caracci on Liner Locks and Emersons.......'

Chris Caracci, designer of the BM AFCK, has his own forum here, as you probably already know.

Here are his thoughts on the AXIS lock and on liner locks, and Ernie is mentioned too:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=171286

Quote:

Bench-who?
Wild Bill,
Thank you for the opportunity to respond to such a juicy question.
I will however restrain myself otherwise I will give my friend Mr. Prisco a heart attack!
I am not totally sure what the axis is but I believe it is the button that slides in a groove/cam.
I do not stay up with benchmade...
 
Steely_Gunz said:
I don't follow, but no one is going to confuse me with the sharpest knife in the drawer. So a lock is good and effective and safe (which I agree with regarding the Axis), but as soon as other companies can use it freely it makes it uninteresting? Why would a knife company not make a knife that uses a proven and effective lock? Cold Steel uses the Triad on a lot of knives. You can already see the new locks they are messing around with because the Triad's patent is running out soon, and boy howdy are a LOT of knife companies gonna jump on that one. That's one of the most effective and secure locks ever devised.
Click to expand...

Man, I cannot wait to get some other knives with a Triad Lock, better believe it.
 
In reply to Steely_Gunz. It isn't just other companies it is Benchmade too. They essentially started making only one knife. A cross bar lock. As soon as they did that they stopped innovating, if it can be said they innovated at all. They bought the idea. Any of the other companies could have innovated too. Instead they simply waited. Cold Steel innovated. Good for them.

How many types of locks must there be? Why do people not use fixed blade knives when they think they might exceed the abilities of a folder? Non locking folders have been around for centuries. They work abundantly well for what they were designed to do. Fixed blade kniives work abundantly well for what they were designed to do. They only reason to put locks on folding knives is to do something different and be seen as innovating.
 
kreole said:
The dude who designed the AFCK said the axis lock is unsafe...just to throw some spice in your life

"if the Axis is the one they showed me then you can bet your LIFE it can easily close by accident by your fingers inadvertently hitting the release."

Brigadier

Thread 'Chris Caracci on Liner Locks and Emersons.......'

Chris Caracci, designer of the BM AFCK, has his own forum here, as you probably already know.

Here are his thoughts on the AXIS lock and on liner locks, and Ernie is mentioned too:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=171286

Quote:

Bench-who?
Wild Bill,
Thank you for the opportunity to respond to such a juicy question.
I will however restrain myself otherwise I will give my friend Mr. Prisco a heart attack!
I am not totally sure what the axis is but I believe it is the button that slides in a groove/cam.
I do not stay up with benchmade...
Click to expand...

The M2 version of the AFCK remains my favorite Benchmade...and most carried. And Chris Caracci was my first SWAT team trainer when he worked for Ft. Lauderdale P.D. (This was years prior to the introduction of the knife which he co-designed with Les De Asis.)

Chris had a particular way of using a knife in a tactical situation, which is probably responsible for his criticism.
 
SharpBits said:
I think the OP is just tired of all the "me too" designs out there. Iterations on iterations on iterations.
Click to expand...
Well, I think there are a few ways to look at that. If a knife maker sees a design or concept or whatever from another company that’s selling well, it certainly makes sense for them to try to cash in on it - if they can legally do so. Locking mechanism is just one of so many factors that go into a knife’s design. Couldn’t the same be said about any other type of lock that’s used by the vast majority of manufacturers? I’m not trying to be contentious here, I guess I’m just trying to understand why crossbar locks would be considered differently from any of the many other design elements that are widely used in the industry.

Edit: Funny seeing this thread, as I just now got an email from Buck announcing the new 791 Range series, featuring a crossbar lock. That Range Pro checks so many of my boxes. And just as I’ve proclaimed that I’ve ordered my last knife …
 
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Danny Linguini said:
Well, I think there are a few ways to look at that. If a knife maker sees a design or concept or whatever from another company that’s selling well, it certainly makes sense for them to try to cash in on it - if they can legally do so. Locking mechanism is just one of so many factors that go into a knife’s design. Couldn’t the same be said about any other type of lock that’s used by the vast majority of manufacturers? I’m not trying to be contentious here, I guess I’m just trying to understand why crossbar locks would be considered differently from any of the many other design elements that are widely used in the industry.
Click to expand...
Years ago, my good friend Kit Carson remarked the following when I complained about another knife maker ripping off designs that Kit was known for.

"We all stand on the shoulders of others who came before us."

I admired his ability to not take it personally...but I always found it offensive when others stole the designs of other makers. I will say the same in regard to the work of another friend, Fred Perrin, whose work was widely copied.

That said, there are degrees...and each case should be viewed on its merits and what it contributes.
 
brianv said:
In reply to Steely_Gunz. It isn't just other companies it is Benchmade too. They essentially started making only one knife. A cross bar lock. As soon as they did that they stopped innovating, if it can be said they innovated at all. They bought the idea. Any of the other companies could have innovated too. Instead they simply waited. Cold Steel innovated. Good for them.

How many types of locks must there be? Why do people not use fixed blade knives when they think they might exceed the abilities of a folder? Non locking folders have been around for centuries. They work abundantly well for what they were designed to do. Fixed blade kniives work abundantly well for what they were designed to do. They only reason to put locks on folding knives is to do something different and be seen as innovating.
Click to expand...
You sort of answered your own assertion here. "They stopped innovating!" followed by "How many locks must there be, why not use a fixed blade"? I agree 100%, at some point, Man's Oldest Tool isn't really going to improve much further. Super steels, lock designs, and blade shapes. That's it. That's a folding knife. As for locks and innovation, there are countless actual knife lock designs out there, but there are several in common usage for a reason. It's because they're a combination of strongest, easiest to operate, and easy for the manufacturers/makers to make. 🤷
 
brianv said:
In reply to Steely_Gunz. It isn't just other companies it is Benchmade too. They essentially started making only one knife. A cross bar lock. As soon as they did that they stopped innovating, if it can be said they innovated at all. They bought the idea. Any of the other companies could have innovated too. Instead they simply waited. Cold Steel innovated. Good for them.
Click to expand...

Unique features like locks that can be patented are a miniscule part of innovation in the knife industry. The magnetic latch on the 85 balisong is new and different, but didn't make any waves. On the other hand, the form factor of the Bugout overturned the knife industry and now everyone's trying to make something to go head to head against it.

Innovation can also come in the form of refining production processes or improvements in the sales network. For instance, the ability to configure a custom Benchmade knife a la Nike ID is pretty forward thinking for the knife industry. And while the knife community is getting more and more exasperated with Benchmade and their pricing, they seem to be doing really well with the normies. I see a lot of non-knife people carrying their products, and the general population cares a lot more about a thin knife that's easy to carry like the Bugout than the latest and greatest lock design.
 
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