Mission MPK-Ti

Cliff Stamp · Jun 9, 2003

A lot of this information contained in the review has been posted before in a thread comparing the MPK-Ti to the SOG SEAL :

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=184219

The review includes additional information; edge modifications, and very heavy durability work, of which I was both very surprised and impressed by Beta-Ti. While it flexes easily and everyone watching the prying thought it was going to break straight away, it continued to resist breaking even when very heavy loads are applied. I thought such claims from Mission were just hype, but the Beta-Ti handles heavy loads much better than many cutlery steels.

While the MPK-Ti doesn't chop well for a blade of its size, as it is light and neutral in balance, the NIB cutting ability is above average. The blade comes decently sharp and while the edge angle is about the norm, the edge thickness is significantly lower than on most "tactical" knives, giving an overall above average cutting efficiency. The serrations are simply superb, smooth cutting with very high efficiency and long lasting sharpness. The edge however will impact more readily than most steels off of hard contacts (rocks and such).

More details :

http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/knives/MPK_Ti.html

-Cliff

JDMSMBACPA · Jun 9, 2003

Thanks Cliff. I've always been curious about Mission's Ti knives. I always thought the MPU7-Ti would make a nice little backpacking knife, but since I've discovered these forums I've become more interested in the Spydie/Moran Drop Point or Spydie/Perrin Bowie.

Cliff Stamp · Jun 10, 2003

Yes, for a light utility knife, a quality steel would be a more optimal choice for most cases. Where extreme corrosion resistance is required, a small ceramic knife may be a decent option. However it is hard to exceed the corrosion resistance of a decent stainless steel unless you are pretty much soaking it in salt water.

-Cliff

Cliff Stamp · Jun 16, 2003

Mainly to recheck the toughness of Beckers 0170-6C against Mission's A2, I took the remains of the Becker Bowie and Mission MPK-A2 outside for some hammering. The MPK-Ti was also used for comparison.

Putting the MPK-A2 on a 4x4, and using light hits with a ball-pien hammer, the blade broke losing large pieces (greater than 0.5 cm squared), after just eight pops (elbow snaps). The Becker took a dozen of such hits with no problems, and then a dozen more full swings from the shoulder with no problems.

With the Becker on a rock (beach rock, very smooth), a couple of elbow pops on the same point of impact induced several large pieces of the blade to break away (a cm squared). Moving to another region, a dozen full hits were taken with no problems.

Putting the Mission-A2 on the rock, it again suffered damage much faster than the Becker Bowie to a larger extent.

The MPK-Ti took two dozen hits on the 4x4 without problems, and two dozen on the rock without effect. Moving on the impacts were focused right on the edge of the knife, and full power swings still could not cause fracture. Eventually the edge was actually thinned out by cold working, and the metal suffered ductile failure.

In short, the Becker steel again showed it was significantly tougher than the Mission-A2 impact wise, and the MPK-Ti in another class far higher.

-Cliff

mtngunr · Apr 20, 2005

Thanks for the good review...unlike some, I LIKE knowing just how far you can take a knife before it breaks/fails...I put my MPK up against a Ka-Bar, SRK, Western 46-8 (think 1" longer Ka-Bar), and think those are fair competitors..it holds it own against the Ka-Bar and Western, surpasses the SRK (suprise, suprise, suprise) in chopping and whittling construction lumber (them all being about the same weight and length, that was expected), which I think is a fair evaluation of what normal use is like with a field knife....what I got by buying an MPK is the knife I always dreamed of...the unbreakable and maintenance-free Ka-Bar....sure you can break one, but you really have to make a dedicated effort to do so, and the only care it needs is occasional sharpening, and the latter isn't very often so long as you leave off cutting stuff harder than 45Rc...and then it sharpens easy and fast...great field knife......

Cliff Stamp · Apr 21, 2005

It certainly surprised me, I wasn't overly interested in the knife due to the low hardness, but after using it my opinion changed fairly dramatically. If I wanted a corrosion resistant large blade now this stands out to me over stainless because the toughness is just extreme. The only two real drawbacks are the low weight for chopping and the durability of the serrations.

While the Ti is soft, the plain edge is rather robust, even if you do hit something hard it just takes a minor dent and it easily handled batoning hard knots and such. However if you accidently, or just out of ignorance tried to cut something really hard (like steel belted rubber) with the serrations you can actually grind them right off and these can't be repaired by the user, though Mission could probably regrind them.

Of course steel serrations are a weak point durability wise as well except for the really robust chisel tipped ones which can't actually cut anything well.

-Cliff

mtngunr · Apr 21, 2005

That was why I expressly put it up against blades of near the same length, weight, and definitely designed for the same purpose....that being military general purpose utility/fighting knife...none of them are great choppers, either, and they excell in not much.....but they do a whole lot of things in a pinch without being overlarge and overheavy...didn't see much point in putting the MPK up against my Ang Khola or Trailmaster or handforged camp-knife....the MPK weighs very close to other combat/utility designs, my thinking being that it may be 40% lighter than steel, but the MPK blade is about 40% thicker than most combat utility blades, so should perform on average about the same, which it seems to do....doesn't hold a keen edge very long, particularly when it's subjected to pounding/chopping, but holds a useful edge for a very long time indeed and when sharpening stakes, stripping bark, splitting kindling, clearing brush and all those myriad other chores I used to put a knife through in the Army, not to mention the abusive tasks that generally trash GP field knives...and while in THAT organisation, one thing I learned is that non-stop exposure in the field makes most knives fairly useless in short order unless oil and steel are handy at all times (and in coastal areas all bets are off, period)...several hot days soaking in a limp leather sheath gives one a nice rough rusty edge, and if you were savy enough to have a stainless blade it probably would break....so from that standpoint alone, the MPK is my all-around GP knife, as it may not work the best at some things, but it will pretty much always work.....thanks agin for the great honest review...what it took to break it is what sold me on the knife....
PS- I am originally from the Gulf Coast, worked offshore, and know what seawater and sun does to virtually every artifact of any material (total destruction in fairly short order), and owning a knife that can shrug off that hostile an environment impresses me more than anything...and I agree totally about the initial turn-off of the Rc hardness issue...just goes to show that Rc isn't everything...or even the primary thing....

Cliff Stamp · Apr 22, 2005

mtngunr said:
that being military general purpose utility/fighting knife...none of them are great choppers, either

Yeah, looked at from its weight, not its size, the chopping performance is solid enough, and compared to a Ka-bar and other knives of that loose type I would pick the Mission readily.

If sea water is a large issue, then the Mission would really stand out heavily as even the high carbon stainless blades do not fare well here, ATS-34 and similar will pit badly in such enviroments.

-Cliff

mtngunr · Apr 23, 2005

Cliff Stamp said:
Yeah, looked at from its weight, not its size, the chopping performance is solid enough, and compared to a Ka-bar and other knives of that loose type I would pick the Mission readily.

If sea water is a large issue, then the Mission would really stand out heavily as even the high carbon stainless blades do not fare well here, ATS-34 and similar will pit badly in such enviroments.

-Cliff

The high carbon stainless steels rust easily...merely using them and not cleaning or oiling will have one rusty in a short time...sea water will rust the bejabbers out of one, not just pit it...as for the size, the MPK is not a large knife..it is the same size as a Ka-Bar...the blade has more depth is all...and very remindish of a Bagwell/Trailmaster front half...I know it basically copied the ATAK, but the ATAK clearly took styling cues from what was selling....but it takes more than looks....

Cliff Stamp · Apr 23, 2005

mtngunr said:
...sea water will rust the bejabbers out of one, not just pit it...

Yeah, what I meant by pit is damage penetrating into the steel, even on short soaks like overnight the damage is deep enough that you are looking visible depth. For that type of an enviroment you need something like the 420HC Buck uses as a minimum, Spyderco's H1 is obviously another consideration have not used that but it seems corrosion proof on paper, these of course don't have the toughness and flexibility of Mission's Ti however.

...as for the size, the MPK is not a large knife..it is the same size as a Ka-Bar...

Yes, I was thinking of something like the Camp Tramp which is a similar size but is a much more powerful chopper due to its weight and blade heavy balance. Of course its steel isn't suited to corrosive enviroments either. It doesn't get the deep pits that ATS-34 does, but the edge won't stay sharp well in salt water and similar.

...I know it basically copied the ATAK

Rick from Mission argues that the ATAK is a SEAL based design and the same guys who worked on the ATAK asked him to make a similar knife with a more corrosion resistant blade and a more versatile handle. McClung argues otherwise. In any case the performance of an ATAK and MPK are not even similar, they are two radically different knives, I'd take the MPK-Ti or A2 easily.

-Cliff

mtngunr · Apr 24, 2005

Just to set the record straight, it seems the SEALs wanted a Ti ATAK which they claim was designed with their input, and the MPK took it from there with what are said to be design improvements...never having held an ATAK, I cannot say with any certainty, but the spine is free from ridges, the handle design is darned good (one of the best I have ever done hard chooping with), and I agree a straight choil grind is a stress riser and approve the curved MPK design.....but they certainly do favor each other...of course, I think the ATAK favors a Recon Scout/Trailmaster and those both are (to my understanding) Bagwell inspired designs that were the subject of some wrangling between CS and Bagwell which Bagwell won......my opinion? Hey if it has an edge and point, you might win in California....

Phil36 · May 9, 2005

Cliff Stamp said:
Rick from Mission argues that the ATAK is a SEAL based design and the same guys who worked on the ATAK asked him to make a similar knife with a more corrosion resistant blade and a more versatile handle. McClung argues otherwise.

Does anybody know more about this?
I spent some time trying to figure out whether the ATAK is or is not a SEAL based design. But except for "The Design behind the MPK" by R.Schultz and a few K.McClung's posts on tacticalforums.com I couldn't find anything. I was hoping that there might be an unbiased party that could explain what really happened.

Thanks

Cliff Stamp · May 9, 2005

Phil36 said:
...whether the ATAK is or is not a SEAL based design.

Many knives claim such attachments as promotion, similar to "my knives are used by high speed operators", there are lots of military influenced knives, even people in the military or used to be making knives.

The MPK is similar to the ATAK just as the ATAK is similar to the Cold Steel Recon Scout. Neither are close to being copies, the handles are completely different as are the choil and point styles and of course steels and sheaths.

As for finding out where the design came from, elements of the ATAK are in all of McClung's designs so it is obvious he had a good deal to do with it, he notes it was influenced by user feedback which seems like the most sensible idea to me.

As for Rick's idea that it was a SEAL design, that seems simply like something to avoid the copy issue, you could ask Mission for specific names.

-Cliff

Phil36 · May 11, 2005

Cliff,

Thank you for your reply.

Cliff Stamp said:
The MPK is similar to the ATAK just as the ATAK is similar to the Cold Steel Recon Scout. Neither are close to being copies, the handles are completely different as are the choil and point styles and of course steels and sheaths.

This is an interesting point of view. I never thought about it this way. But now that you are mentioning it, it makes perfect sense.

Cliff Stamp said:
... you could ask Mission for specific names.

I am not sure if I know what names you are talking about. Could you explain it?

Thanks,
Phil

Cliff Stamp · May 11, 2005

Mission and McClung both claim to have worked with Seals to develop the knife. Mission claims that the Seals basically designed the knife, McClung says they just refined it. You could ask them for some names of the individuals involved and ask them directly.

-Cliff

Phil36 · May 11, 2005

I see. I think that I may do that.
Thanks,
Phil

joeshredd · May 11, 2005

I can't really provide much factual info, but I bought into the first run of 50 ATAKs that Maddog was selling to help ramp up to produce the ATAK under a military contract... which subsequently was lost. My understanding, and articles in the old Fighting Knives ma. provide some of this, is that Kevin made a knife and the SEALs tested it, and others, and chose his design over several other entrants. His subsequent design changes supposedly reflected SEAL input after testing the original design.

That said; I'd bow to either Maddog Knives, Mission or Kasik to provide the insider's version of the facts...