Mizu Honyaki knives, handle glue tang construction?

[Londinium Armoury]

What tang and handle bonding method is traditional?
I need to know specifics, even as far as cultural customs and regional preference etc if any exist.
Making a Mizu Honyaki is serious business and I need to do everything correctly, I have multiple Mizu Honyaki and some oil quenched Honyaki ready to house in handles and go onto rough polishing. Would I now be using traditional Japanese rice glue? or something similar some sort of pitch or resin that reacts to heat. Because I can't just slap some highstreet epoxy in there. I am thinking a traditional glue or resin is where to go here? Something that when heated up the tang can be pulled free to work on the blade, replace wa handle, check for rust, general care and maint of the tang and knife, maybe it needs a restoration 10 years later and sent to a togishi etc etc.
So the handle needs to be bonded to the tang with a substance that I think might be traditional rice glue (Sokui) Which I have used in the past to glue saya and tsuka parts together.
Or would I just heat the tang and burn press it in with heat and compression?
I didn't want to make multiple threads but I do need another thread to discuss other aspects of the Honyaki process, I don't want to spam multiple threads so I will just bulletpoint this OP and put them here too, feel free to bring up anything related to Honyaki and Mizu Honyaki alike.

Second point of interest, To Hamon or not hamon? from my limited experience of making Mizu Honyaki, I have noticed a divide, who knows more about the 2 seperate distinctions in market price, how much demand there is for both types. Which type is the more sought after. Because from what I can tell the Mizu honyaki without hamon are more prized thant he ones with hamon. Maybe due to the clay helping to stop warp and crack failures? I did notice that when quenching single bevel geometry blades without clay they do like to warp when the stock is thin, maybe 1 in 3 will warp on me. I havent done enough with hamon to know truly if the clay helps reduce at single bevel low geometry. Will be finding out more and more day by day now. I am producing about 3-4 Honyaki per week as of now 03/09/2021.

Any and all advice and even questions welcome. What I really am hoping for (Sorry for giving you more work but I cherish your advice) was Stacy and the other vets to lay down their knowledge of Japanese kitchen knives here so I can improve my process as much as possible.
Thanks as always guys.
Regards Aaron

 

[HSC ///]

Make your way over to kkf....

you can use beeswax or hot melt glue for the tang handle but Idk if that’s traditional

 

[Londinium Armoury]

Make your way over to kkf....

you can use beeswax or hot melt glue for the tang handle but Idk if that’s traditional

Do you think this thread would be better in that forum? I don't want to double post I'll leave it up to the mods to put it where ever is more appropriate. I have seen the wax sealing of the top slot, and to hide the types that have round drill holes and fill the void. Not sure what is used exactly to actually glue the tang in. I don't want to attempt to bond a wa handle to the tang until I find out exactly what I should be using to glue or bond if anything.
Thanks for your help.

 

[HSC ///]

Do you think this thread would be better in that forum? I don't want to double post I'll leave it up to the mods to put it where ever is more appropriate. I have seen the wax sealing of the top slot, and to hide the types that have round drill holes and fill the void. Not sure what is used exactly to actually glue the tang in. I don't want to attempt to bond a wa handle to the tang until I find out exactly what I should be using to glue or bond if anything.
Thanks for your help.

Kkf is another forum on the internet devoted to kitchen knives. Those guys are highly knowledgeable in the information u seek

you can burn in the tang for a snug fit and fill with beeswax or hot glue as mentioned. You don’t need to actually glue the tang in or have a strong bond.

 

[Londinium Armoury]

Kkf is another forum on the internet devoted to kitchen knives. Those guys are highly knowledgeable in the information u seek

you can burn in the tang for a snug fit and fill with beeswax or hot glue as mentioned. You don’t need to actually glue the tang in or have a strong bond.

Thank you, this sounds right to me, that's the type of info I needed, I might ask on another forum, but I'm getting good results so far here haha.
Thanks.

 

[HSC ///]

The sophisticated Japanese kitchen knife customers I have that like to polish their blades are ok with hot melt glue. But idk if thats traditional

as far as hamon/no hamon, I’ve never seen “ Mizu honyaki without hamon are more prized thant he ones with hamon”. I see the opposite. Never had a customer that wouldn’t want a hamon

if I make a homogeneous high carbon steel blade I always clay coat the spine. This is for my own ease of processing particularly in straightening. Whether I decide to polish and reveal the hamon is another story. Usually I don’t

 

[Londinium Armoury]

The sophisticated Japanese kitchen knife customers I have that like to polish their blades are ok with hot melt glue. But idk if thats traditional

as far as hamon/no hamon, I’ve never seen “ Mizu honyaki without hamon are more prized thant he ones with hamon”. I see the opposite. Never had a customer that wouldn’t want a hamon

if I make a homogeneous high carbon steel blade I always clay coat the spine. This is for my own ease of processing particularly in straightening. Whether I decide to polish and reveal the hamon is another story. Usually I don’t

This is what I heard is the source of the Mizu without hamon are more difficult to produce because of high failure warp rates. So this is what I was told, both mizu with hamon and without hamon are considered the top line of japanese knives. because there is the difference between Oil quenched honyaki and water quenched, so Mizu Honyaki are more prized than oil quenched honyaki. Then further still Mizu Honyaki without clay protection are the most difficult to produce, so usually fetch between 2-3k per knife.

 

[Londinium Armoury]

What about Hamon placement on Mizu Honyaki? I don't want to start another thread just for that question but I'm about to put clay on some new Japanese single bevel knives I'm making this morning.
I've seen hamon above shinogi line and below shinogi, I'm thinking hamon below shinogi on the actual cutting bevel is harder for the customer to maintain and sharpen without distorting the finish of the hard and soft portions respectively.
So What do you guys do usually or maybe both styles? I'm thinking if the hamon is above the shinogi then the entire cutting edge is hard steel with a single finish which can be done during sharpening stage of the single bevel. This way the hamon line will never actually touch the stones because it's situated completely behind the bevel. Then the customer can just deal with polishing the hamon section seperate. That's my reasoning anyway, it would make the Honyaki as difficult to polish and sharpen as a katana if the hamon was below the Shinogi, and most peoples polishing skills are not on the professional togishi level. So this would surely help the customers a lot right? Stop me if i'm missing something but I think hamon above shinogi is the safer bet?