Model 119 Blood Groove question....

Joe58

Joe58

Joined
Nov 11, 2002
Messages
1,969
Hey guys - I just obtained this 5160 brass 119 off the exchange in nice condition. Number 45. While I'm normally a stainless blade preferer (is that a word?), I thought the brass 119 would be a good companion to my older standard one, even though I've not much real "need" for either, lol. They are a cool model though. I did notice the brass one has a little more heft to it.

My question though, is the marking in the bottom of the fuller, or "blood groove" on blade.

I'm assuming on these newer models, it's created using a laser, or some other computer controlled cutter, milling machine? And this is the leftover from the process? If someone else has a new model like this, does yours have this too?

And if so, why aren't these buffed/polished out? Just gives a bit of unfinished look to me, but not really a big deal. I would have thought a "custom shop" model would be polished up a little better than stock models.

And can one of our more knowledgable members tell me how these were added on the older models before all the modern computer driven machinery? Just curious. I know the actual purpose of these are an interesting debate to read through.





 
Sorry Joe, it looks like no one knows. I am surprised one of the Buck employees has not been on the forum to comment. It does look like the mark left over from making the fuller. I have never seen a mark like that.
 
Hey Joe, I have a 119 in 5160. The blood groove on yours looks much worse than mine. I stink at posting pics. Like almost anything quality just isn't like it used to be. That said the tooling that did the groove on your blade looks like it might have chipped or something. That line and circle on both sides in the groove is not the norm?
 
I think contacting buck customer service might be the best option, they usually respond to me within the same day.
 
Wallace Mutt said:
I think contacting buck customer service might be the best option, they usually respond to me within the same day.
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Oh, it's not an issue I'm particularly PO'ed about or anything like that. Curious more than anything else. Wanted to know if other guys who purchased from this run had similar markings, or maybe mine just slipped thru. It happens. Not an issue I'm concerned about getting corrected. It's made to be used right? :) And it may have indeed been sold as a second originally as I'm not the first owner.

Xr6x -

Dunno if it's normal or not on the new models. Here's a couple pics of my old 119 and you can see the fuller isn't highly polished inside, but no real obvious machining marks either like on my new one.
 

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Joe,

Maybe you should contact Copper&Clad before you contact Buck. I'm sure they will want to know. Then, if they can't help, contact Buck.

Bert
 
Hi Joe,

I picked up this knife off the big auction site, it was sold as a factory blem knife. It was from one of last years SO knife orders. It has the same bad tooling marks in the blood groove and that is the only issue I can find to make it a blem.


JB
 
I have a 119 from 2011. It has a machined groove with the line sort of like yours but not as deep. I just thought it was normal.
 
I understand what your saying. But I think if it bugged me and it would. I'd merely get me some 200 & 300 grit sandpaper and a pencil. Then fix it. DM
 
Joe, here's a pic of mine. The groove is probably worse than yours now that I've had a better look. It's really an eyesore but this knife has been used and abused and still gets used a lot.

 
Looks like it was plunge milled with a ball-end cutter. A dull cutter to boot...
When I ran a few CNCs and we had to cut a slot like that we would interpolate the hole, stepping down over many passes to make a nice clean slot. It would appear the fuller was made with one (or very few) plunges on these knives. The circle visible on one side is from the stress of a ball-end cutter plunging nose-first into the steel.

If you imagine a cutter that is say 1/4" in diameter: the outer-most diameter of the cutter will be traveling the fastest (flute speed), however as you get closer to the center of the cutter the cutting edge is moving slower and slower. All of the cutting edges are rotating at the same speed as the rest of the cutter but the cutting edge at the very center of the cutter is traveling at zero speed. Therefore this metal is deformed by the moving cutter instead of cut. That is why you see the line down the center of the fuller.
 
Regular 119. Store bought 2016 production:

5364F97C-2F10-4464-9D1E-D72959D070A1_zps0x1g3aug.jpg


F89D4A79-DE46-43D2-AC06-635A2B50469F_zpsi1u9m99o.jpg


That's a piece of fuzz on the first pic. Not a scratch.:p
 
Joe58 said:
And can one of our more knowledgable members tell me how these were added on the older models before all the modern computer driven machinery?
Click to expand...

I would be interested to know this information as well. If I run my finger inside the fuller of my late 70s 119, the fuller is wavy. It feels like it has been forged or hammered, but that's probably not the case.


 
Was browsing Buck's website and they have this 119 pictured below on their "How old is my Buck?" page. http://www.buckknives.com/about-knives/how-old/
This blood groove shows some speckling. I don't know if that picture is real or not but if it is the blade is dated 2010. Seems like there are inconsistencies all over the place with how that groove is machined.

 
TAH said:
I would be interested to know this information as well. If I run my finger inside the fuller of my late 70s 119, the fuller is wavy. It feels like it has been forged or hammered, but that's probably not the case.
Click to expand...

I would also be interested to know how the old style fullers were made. From my limited research it looks like the change from "stamped" or "forged" fullers to the new "routed" fullers was around 2006-2007.
 
To me, it looks like the old fuller was ground with a wheel that had a convex profile or "edge". Like a wide cut-off wheel for those familiar with cut-off wheels.
 
My opinion is in Macchina's camp. Rupestris knife appears acceptable for the finish that a current production 119 knife is normally sold with. As a Custom, the OP knife should go back and the reseller needs to do a better job in understanding what is correct. You may can make it acceptable yourself, but if you don't let the factory know what it going out the door they don't get a chance to make the reputation and warranty promise righteous. 300

I say all current 119 groove's ought to meet the "standard" of this old tip-down 119 groove.


Blow this up on your screen and you see a slight hint of metal stain, which may be a photo effect, but no machine scratches.
 
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If you look at the old knives, the ends of the grooves are oval shaped. If you look at the ends of grooves on the new knives, they are semi-circular. I say old knives= ground groves, new knives= milled grooves. My $.02
 
I wouldnt call this a warranty issue on a $40 production knife. On a high polish custom shop sure.
 
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