Becker BK17 vs Kabar MK1 vs Condor Bushlore
Once again, special thanks to BRAB for letting this happen. It has really helped me figure which one of these tweeners I want.
On to the review.
The BK17 is a full length full width tang knife. It has a 4 3/8in blade with a saber grind and clip point (very stabby). Like most Becker knives, the ergos are pretty great, and it has a tiny bit of a forward weight bias.
The Kabar MK1 is a full tang 5in blade with a full flat grind and a bit of a swedge. It is also pretty handle heavy, with the balance point being right in the middle of the the second finger.
The Condor Bushlore is a full width full length tang with a convex scandi grind on a 4 3/8in blade with wooded scales. This knife has a very neutral balance point.
Also included in a bit of the test are the Becker BK11 and the Becker BK2, mostly for size and performance comparison during portions of the review.
Comparison photos:
The whole group, basking in the sun.
A size comparison between the three knives, for reference.
The main competitors.
You can really tell how similar in size these three knives are, and why wanted to compare them.
Beginning sharpness order:
1) MK1... super easy to sharpen, and its thinner grind made it very slicy
2) Condor Bushlore. Mine came with a messed up grind, and very dull. I spent lots of time on it making sure it was up to snuff.
3) BK17. It came pretty dull after lots of testing. I improved it to the point where it would cut paper.
First test: Chopping
I know that none of these knives are designed for chopping, but since these are all ideal belt knives I figured it would be a good test to see how they could do if they had to be pressed into that role.
As you can see from the photos, none of them did all that well. I took twenty strokes with each knife. All I can say here is that the BK11 may be a great knife, but its terrible with chopping, and the BK2 outperformed the rest by about double.
All of the main combatants performed really close to each other here. The bushlore and BK17 both have a non-rearward weight balance, as well as places for lanyards (I didn't use them, but that would have helped). The MK1 may have a longer blade, but I don't feel that this helped it all here.
Bushlore
BK17
MK1
BK2
And the whole group you can really see how the BK11 and BK2 stand out from the rest here.
And the competitors zoomed in a bit.
Placing:
1st BK17 The handle design really helped it out, as I could choke back a bit and still have a handle on it. It was the easiest to swing accurately, and it chopped the deepest by a smidge.
2nd is actually a tie between the MK1 and the Bushlore. If you have a lanyard on the Bushlore, I would use that, as it is, the MK1 and its large pommel are a bit easier to hold onto a rearward grip without assistance.
now, on to our next contest.
Lengthwise batoning:
Now, I know this is still a controversial topic, but if this knife is competing for the spot of my "always with me" belt knife, I want to feel comfortable doing anything with it. One of those things is breaking down modestly sized wood for fire starting.
I didn't have any really amazing wood for this, but I gave each knife a try with a piece or two to get a feel for how they worked.
The Becker was by far the most confidence inspiring (not surprising considering its heritage). It was the thickest full length full width tang, and it showed. It did however transfer the most vibrations to the handle.
Between the other two, there was a bit of a toss up. The Bushlore felt like you could wail on pretty good because of the full tang, but the scandivex grind wasn't all that great at this chore. It felt more likely to bind in tough spots.
The MK1 felt a bit better at actually splitting the wood (wider spine helps it here compared to the Bushlore), but the stick tang wasn't as confidence inspiring. It did just fine in most everything, but the handle (top "guard") actually got in the way a bit. I'm sure the tang would have done just fine for anything that I could do to it, but for stuff like that, I like the confidence that the Becker inspires.
Placing:
1st BK17 the widest blade, and the beefy construction gives it the win here.
2nd Bushlore Once again, the construction is pretty beefy. The grind and thinner blade stock keeps it from exceling (also kind of worry about damaging the handle on the bushlore, which would be harder to repare).
3rd MK1 The construction and the top guard and handle not being flush to the spine is what made it score so lowly. I would actually say it split wood a bit better than the bushlore, but I would trust the bushlore more if I had to do this a lot.
Crossgrain batoning:
Like I was saying before, none of these knives are really designed to be chopped with. If I had to cut something out in the woods, I would much prefer to baton than to chop.
The surprise winner here was the MK1. The FFG blade made it much easier to cut deeper with each cut, thus making you take less cuts for the same size piece of wood. Check out how deep the blade was in the wood compared to the Bushlore. Also notice that this is the same piece of wood that I did the chopping test on, and just finished it up with crossgrain batoning.
Next here was the BK17. Its saber grind didn't do quite as well at this as the MK1, but it still did "just fine".
The Bushlore could do this of course, but it was the worst performer in the group, once again, I think its because of the grind. Where lengthwise batoning is all about how well you can split the wood, crossgrain isn't, its about how easily the knife can go into the wood. The scandivex grind didn't do all that well here.
Placement:
1st MK1
2nd BK17
3rd Bushlore
Fuzz sticks:
Here the key is a nice sharp knife with a good slim profile.
The MK1 does a great job at this. I'm not sure if it was the best here because it was the sharpest knife to begin with , but I felt that I had the most control with the MK1, and could get the "best" fuzzies when working with that knife. THe biggest problem I have with the MK1 is the ricasso in this reguard. It puts the work a bit farther away from the handle than I would actually like. But other than that, it does excellently.
Bushlore. It did well, but I feel that it was having a harder time. I love how your hand is RIGHt up next to the work, and the great control you have because of that.
BK17. Sadly, I wasn't as impressed with the BK17 for this type of work. I don't know if it was meerly the sharpness to blame, or if it could be part of the grind at work there. I just didnt feel that the blade "bit" (or "grabbed" as my wife said) as well as the MK1 or the bushlore. I did like however how close the blade was to the handle. I feel that it was better in that regard than the MK1.
Placing:
1st MK1
2nd Bushlore
3rd BK17
Drilling:
Pointy knives work great for this type of work. Its not all that frequently done, but still a useful test.
The MK1 did better than I thought for this test.
The BK17 did indeed do a great job of having a pointy tip, and it probably made the fastest progress through the wood. That said, It was actually the most akward for drilling. I think it was because the blade was not symetrical, so twisting it back and forth made for very uneven holes.
The Bushlore was the surprise winner here. It has a nice fine tip, and its symetrical about the tip, so it did excelent with the test.
Placing:
1st Bushlore
2nd MK1
3rd BK17
Ergonomics:
This one is VERY subjective I understand, but I'll tell you about what I did and did not like about each knife.
MK1: Surprisingly, I think I kind of disliked the kraton handle. Its nice and grippy, but when clean, I actually thought that it was TOO grippy. The Handle fit my hand nicely. I was afraid that it might be a bit small, but if is almost exactly the width of my palm. If the top guard was still there though, there would have been problems for sure. I also thought the balance of the blade was weird, it was very handle heavy, which was interesting to get used to. Also, I dislike the size of the ricasso on this knife. I can't choke up with my fingers because its too small, but its still big enough to keep my hand farther away than I like.
+Palm filling handle
+great traction
-too much traction?
-ricasso
BK17: Great handle design, but honestly I wasn't as amazed by the ergos as I thought I would be initially. I got suspicious that this was because the handle really wasn't all that palm filling, and tried making a liner for it. It was a hack job, but when I tried it out, I liked the feel of the knife MUCH better (I felt the same way about my BK9 by the way, and had to do the same thing to it). The fact that I can make a mod like that helps this out quite a bit. I also liked how the blade was close to the handle. It makes chest lever cuts much easier. The fit and finish though made me a bit sad though. The scales were pretty obviously smaller than the tang, and it made the knife a bit less comfortable than it could have been.
+great handle design
+modable
-slightly small handle standard
-handle scales small (because its a preproduction?!?)
Bushlore: Love the feel of the knife, its very neutral in hand, and that is great for me. Also, the blade is SUPER close to your hand, so detail work is very easy with it. It is very comfortable to carve with. Somehow though, this doesn't make sense, but it is UNcomfortable when I make feathersticks. I always get a hotspot with this knife. I'm not sure if its the design or what, but thats just what happens. Also, I find the handle a bit small for me, if I could add liners to this knife easily, I bet I would love it. As it is, its a bit harder to do that.
+neutral balance
+VERY close to the action with the blade
-hotspots
-harder to mod to make more comfortable
Conclusion:
So the hard part, and the place where most people just skip to
p).
If it were my money, and I was choosing a belt knife to be with me, based on the information I learned above? Well, assuming that I wanted something that was good at the small stuff, and something that I could beat on with some batoning if I had to. I would also want it to do the more normal fuzzies and other camp chores easily.
Based on that, It would seem that the knife I am looking for is the FFG BK16
. I know I've said for a long time the BK17 is the one that appeals to me, but after all the use, it seems like the BK16 is the MK1 and the BK17 thrown together. It should have the slicy-ness and fuzz stick capabilites of the MK1, and the brute strength of construction of the BK17 for batoning.
Ok, I know, thats a cop out answer (but a valid learning I think, it turns out ethan knows what he's doing
).
Of the knives that I tested personally, which one would I choose? This is a much tougher question.
With none of the knives would I feel "under knifed", but I think the knife that I would choose would depend on the situation.
If I had other knives with me for heavy duty work, I would feel perfectly fine with the MK1 for anything. I know the stick tang shouldn't be that big of a weak point, but when it comes down to it and it is the only knife I had with me, I would be a bit nervious if it would break. Not cool.
So if I wasn't sure I would always have other stuff with me, the BK17 gets the vote. Its "Built Becker Tough", and I have great confidence in it and its construction. It is entirely functional for everything, but not the best in every category I choose to test on.
This brings me to the Bushlore in last place somehow. The Bushlore is an amazing knife for the money, but I feel like the slight FF issues (grind) and the fact that it was the only knife that gave MY hands hotspots kind of doomed it. Its a great tough knife that I could trust in, and its still pretty lightweight, so its easy to keep on your person at all times, but for the previous reasons, it wouldn't be the knife I would grab first most times, which is why its down here.
So what is going to happen from here? Well, I purchased the Bushlore and MK1 specifically to test them with the passaround BK17. The only way I could justify this is if I was going to give them away as birthday gifts to my father (He's getting the Bushlore for the cabin), and a buddy of mine (who I've missed like 10 birthdays... he's getting the MK1), and the BK17 is already back at BRabs.
When do the BK16's get released again?
Once again, special thanks to BRAB for letting this happen. It has really helped me figure which one of these tweeners I want.
On to the review.
The BK17 is a full length full width tang knife. It has a 4 3/8in blade with a saber grind and clip point (very stabby). Like most Becker knives, the ergos are pretty great, and it has a tiny bit of a forward weight bias.
The Kabar MK1 is a full tang 5in blade with a full flat grind and a bit of a swedge. It is also pretty handle heavy, with the balance point being right in the middle of the the second finger.
The Condor Bushlore is a full width full length tang with a convex scandi grind on a 4 3/8in blade with wooded scales. This knife has a very neutral balance point.
Also included in a bit of the test are the Becker BK11 and the Becker BK2, mostly for size and performance comparison during portions of the review.
Comparison photos:
The whole group, basking in the sun.
A size comparison between the three knives, for reference.
The main competitors.
You can really tell how similar in size these three knives are, and why wanted to compare them.
Beginning sharpness order:
1) MK1... super easy to sharpen, and its thinner grind made it very slicy
2) Condor Bushlore. Mine came with a messed up grind, and very dull. I spent lots of time on it making sure it was up to snuff.
3) BK17. It came pretty dull after lots of testing. I improved it to the point where it would cut paper.
First test: Chopping
I know that none of these knives are designed for chopping, but since these are all ideal belt knives I figured it would be a good test to see how they could do if they had to be pressed into that role.
As you can see from the photos, none of them did all that well. I took twenty strokes with each knife. All I can say here is that the BK11 may be a great knife, but its terrible with chopping, and the BK2 outperformed the rest by about double.
All of the main combatants performed really close to each other here. The bushlore and BK17 both have a non-rearward weight balance, as well as places for lanyards (I didn't use them, but that would have helped). The MK1 may have a longer blade, but I don't feel that this helped it all here.
Bushlore
BK17
MK1
BK2
And the whole group you can really see how the BK11 and BK2 stand out from the rest here.
And the competitors zoomed in a bit.
Placing:
1st BK17 The handle design really helped it out, as I could choke back a bit and still have a handle on it. It was the easiest to swing accurately, and it chopped the deepest by a smidge.
2nd is actually a tie between the MK1 and the Bushlore. If you have a lanyard on the Bushlore, I would use that, as it is, the MK1 and its large pommel are a bit easier to hold onto a rearward grip without assistance.
now, on to our next contest.
Lengthwise batoning:
Now, I know this is still a controversial topic, but if this knife is competing for the spot of my "always with me" belt knife, I want to feel comfortable doing anything with it. One of those things is breaking down modestly sized wood for fire starting.
I didn't have any really amazing wood for this, but I gave each knife a try with a piece or two to get a feel for how they worked.
The Becker was by far the most confidence inspiring (not surprising considering its heritage). It was the thickest full length full width tang, and it showed. It did however transfer the most vibrations to the handle.
Between the other two, there was a bit of a toss up. The Bushlore felt like you could wail on pretty good because of the full tang, but the scandivex grind wasn't all that great at this chore. It felt more likely to bind in tough spots.
The MK1 felt a bit better at actually splitting the wood (wider spine helps it here compared to the Bushlore), but the stick tang wasn't as confidence inspiring. It did just fine in most everything, but the handle (top "guard") actually got in the way a bit. I'm sure the tang would have done just fine for anything that I could do to it, but for stuff like that, I like the confidence that the Becker inspires.
Placing:
1st BK17 the widest blade, and the beefy construction gives it the win here.
2nd Bushlore Once again, the construction is pretty beefy. The grind and thinner blade stock keeps it from exceling (also kind of worry about damaging the handle on the bushlore, which would be harder to repare).
3rd MK1 The construction and the top guard and handle not being flush to the spine is what made it score so lowly. I would actually say it split wood a bit better than the bushlore, but I would trust the bushlore more if I had to do this a lot.
Crossgrain batoning:
Like I was saying before, none of these knives are really designed to be chopped with. If I had to cut something out in the woods, I would much prefer to baton than to chop.
The surprise winner here was the MK1. The FFG blade made it much easier to cut deeper with each cut, thus making you take less cuts for the same size piece of wood. Check out how deep the blade was in the wood compared to the Bushlore. Also notice that this is the same piece of wood that I did the chopping test on, and just finished it up with crossgrain batoning.
Next here was the BK17. Its saber grind didn't do quite as well at this as the MK1, but it still did "just fine".
The Bushlore could do this of course, but it was the worst performer in the group, once again, I think its because of the grind. Where lengthwise batoning is all about how well you can split the wood, crossgrain isn't, its about how easily the knife can go into the wood. The scandivex grind didn't do all that well here.
Placement:
1st MK1
2nd BK17
3rd Bushlore
Fuzz sticks:
Here the key is a nice sharp knife with a good slim profile.
The MK1 does a great job at this. I'm not sure if it was the best here because it was the sharpest knife to begin with , but I felt that I had the most control with the MK1, and could get the "best" fuzzies when working with that knife. THe biggest problem I have with the MK1 is the ricasso in this reguard. It puts the work a bit farther away from the handle than I would actually like. But other than that, it does excellently.
Bushlore. It did well, but I feel that it was having a harder time. I love how your hand is RIGHt up next to the work, and the great control you have because of that.
BK17. Sadly, I wasn't as impressed with the BK17 for this type of work. I don't know if it was meerly the sharpness to blame, or if it could be part of the grind at work there. I just didnt feel that the blade "bit" (or "grabbed" as my wife said) as well as the MK1 or the bushlore. I did like however how close the blade was to the handle. I feel that it was better in that regard than the MK1.
Placing:
1st MK1
2nd Bushlore
3rd BK17
Drilling:
Pointy knives work great for this type of work. Its not all that frequently done, but still a useful test.
The MK1 did better than I thought for this test.
The BK17 did indeed do a great job of having a pointy tip, and it probably made the fastest progress through the wood. That said, It was actually the most akward for drilling. I think it was because the blade was not symetrical, so twisting it back and forth made for very uneven holes.
The Bushlore was the surprise winner here. It has a nice fine tip, and its symetrical about the tip, so it did excelent with the test.
Placing:
1st Bushlore
2nd MK1
3rd BK17
Ergonomics:
This one is VERY subjective I understand, but I'll tell you about what I did and did not like about each knife.
MK1: Surprisingly, I think I kind of disliked the kraton handle. Its nice and grippy, but when clean, I actually thought that it was TOO grippy. The Handle fit my hand nicely. I was afraid that it might be a bit small, but if is almost exactly the width of my palm. If the top guard was still there though, there would have been problems for sure. I also thought the balance of the blade was weird, it was very handle heavy, which was interesting to get used to. Also, I dislike the size of the ricasso on this knife. I can't choke up with my fingers because its too small, but its still big enough to keep my hand farther away than I like.
+Palm filling handle
+great traction
-too much traction?
-ricasso
BK17: Great handle design, but honestly I wasn't as amazed by the ergos as I thought I would be initially. I got suspicious that this was because the handle really wasn't all that palm filling, and tried making a liner for it. It was a hack job, but when I tried it out, I liked the feel of the knife MUCH better (I felt the same way about my BK9 by the way, and had to do the same thing to it). The fact that I can make a mod like that helps this out quite a bit. I also liked how the blade was close to the handle. It makes chest lever cuts much easier. The fit and finish though made me a bit sad though. The scales were pretty obviously smaller than the tang, and it made the knife a bit less comfortable than it could have been.
+great handle design
+modable
-slightly small handle standard
-handle scales small (because its a preproduction?!?)
Bushlore: Love the feel of the knife, its very neutral in hand, and that is great for me. Also, the blade is SUPER close to your hand, so detail work is very easy with it. It is very comfortable to carve with. Somehow though, this doesn't make sense, but it is UNcomfortable when I make feathersticks. I always get a hotspot with this knife. I'm not sure if its the design or what, but thats just what happens. Also, I find the handle a bit small for me, if I could add liners to this knife easily, I bet I would love it. As it is, its a bit harder to do that.
+neutral balance
+VERY close to the action with the blade
-hotspots
-harder to mod to make more comfortable
Conclusion:
So the hard part, and the place where most people just skip to
p).If it were my money, and I was choosing a belt knife to be with me, based on the information I learned above? Well, assuming that I wanted something that was good at the small stuff, and something that I could beat on with some batoning if I had to. I would also want it to do the more normal fuzzies and other camp chores easily.
Based on that, It would seem that the knife I am looking for is the FFG BK16
. I know I've said for a long time the BK17 is the one that appeals to me, but after all the use, it seems like the BK16 is the MK1 and the BK17 thrown together. It should have the slicy-ness and fuzz stick capabilites of the MK1, and the brute strength of construction of the BK17 for batoning.Ok, I know, thats a cop out answer (but a valid learning I think, it turns out ethan knows what he's doing
).Of the knives that I tested personally, which one would I choose? This is a much tougher question.
With none of the knives would I feel "under knifed", but I think the knife that I would choose would depend on the situation.
If I had other knives with me for heavy duty work, I would feel perfectly fine with the MK1 for anything. I know the stick tang shouldn't be that big of a weak point, but when it comes down to it and it is the only knife I had with me, I would be a bit nervious if it would break. Not cool.
So if I wasn't sure I would always have other stuff with me, the BK17 gets the vote. Its "Built Becker Tough", and I have great confidence in it and its construction. It is entirely functional for everything, but not the best in every category I choose to test on.
This brings me to the Bushlore in last place somehow. The Bushlore is an amazing knife for the money, but I feel like the slight FF issues (grind) and the fact that it was the only knife that gave MY hands hotspots kind of doomed it. Its a great tough knife that I could trust in, and its still pretty lightweight, so its easy to keep on your person at all times, but for the previous reasons, it wouldn't be the knife I would grab first most times, which is why its down here.
So what is going to happen from here? Well, I purchased the Bushlore and MK1 specifically to test them with the passaround BK17. The only way I could justify this is if I was going to give them away as birthday gifts to my father (He's getting the Bushlore for the cabin), and a buddy of mine (who I've missed like 10 birthdays... he's getting the MK1), and the BK17 is already back at BRabs.
When do the BK16's get released again?
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