Morality and Knife Design

B

BlueRabbit

Joined
Jan 4, 2008
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I've been collecting, drawing and designing knives for years. I plan to start making them once I have the space to install a home forge. My normal design philosophy is "utility, not hostility". Kinda cheesy, but it sums everything up my preference for blades that are primarily tools. An ink pen and a hammer can both be adapted to weapons, but it's not there primary function.

I wanted to start a discussion about whether or not there is room for moral philosophy in knife design, or if it is best left to form following function. I admire and own a few tactical knives, and I think a true "tactical" knife is one that best represents both the tool and weapon aspects. A "fighter" is one that is primarily a weapon. If you look at the CRKT Hissatsu, it is designed as a weapon from the ground up. It's strong point, thick spine, curved edge, and narrow blade width are designed specifically for slashing and penetration. You'd have a hard time trying to use it for much else. Now lool at a BK2: thick spine, but with a wide blade, partially straight edge, and comparatively blunt point mark it as primarily a working knife.

So. Is there room in knife design for morality? Or do form and function cover it? You wouldn't try to stab someone with a sheep's foot blade, but if you were designing a knife for stabbing, you wouldn't use a sheep's foot in the first place. If I'm trying to design something with a conscious eye towards it not being used as a weapon, am I limiting myself? Am I limiting the design? A reinforced point is handy for a multitude of tasks, but it's also very good for stabbing. Then again, if someone is in a desperate situation, they aren't going to think about intended purpose. They will use whatever is handy to defend themselves.

What are your thoughts?
 
I don't know if morality factors so much into it, but there plenty of knives and knife designs out there which do not center on any sort of "This is used to kill other people" philosophy. Is a Buck 110 meant to be used to kill someone? Was a CRK Sebenza designed to be used in a shanking? We all know that a bushcraft design knife isn't designed for fighting or commando sentry removal.

So, while it may not be a specifically moral centric method of design, there ARE countless knives on the market that aren't meant as weapons, and their ad copy doesn't mention anything whatsoever about being designed for use in terminating another human being. There's plenty of room in the knife market. If your designs are good, they'll sell! Good luck, brother. :thumbup:
 
Meh. Suspect you will be best off just making blade shapes and styles that your customers want and leave it to them to label them.

Funny you bring up the BK2 though. I was showing one to a fellow hunter once and his comment was "now THAT is a fighting knife". Huh?

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Beckerhead #42
 
It doesn't really matter how you design them, end of the day people will use them how they want to use them and if the knives have a sharp edge or point, they can do some damage if someone wishes to use it as such.

Just make it how you want and let your creativity flow.
 
Having actually used a folding knife to draw blood in self defense, I tend to carry knives that work well for both purposes.

The knife I carry most often is a Benchmade 710. I've used it to slice fruit, peel potatoes, break down boxes, and cut up my steak. However, the 4" blade with fine tip and slight recurve would also work quite sell as a weapon.

The chances of using it as a weapon are quite slim, especially since I'm also usually carrying a gun or two and a fixed blade, but I like having the option.

Design what you like but I wouldn't consider carrying a blunt tip knife unless is was for a specific task at hand.
 
I think the knives do represent the morality of the maker. It would be easy to say, "This is a business, I make knives that people want to buy". That may be true but, it still says something about the makers morality. Those who have any serious interest in knives have got to know that knives are some of the oldest tools known to man. You cannot define the origins of the knife without acknowledging that it was likely designed as a weapon more than anything else. Personally, I have no moral issues with weapons. I am as willing to make a fighting knife as I am a cake knife; perhaps more so the fighting knife based on my life experiences. That surely speaks to my morality but, I am not a violent person. Unfortunately, there are violent people out there and I believe in being safe and being prepared. Are survival and morality linked?

Bob
 
I have the Hissatzu and more than a few "one purpose" knives. I like these knives for their coolness and unique style. I do carry them periodically.
As far as the moral aspect, if would not want to got to court on a self-defense case having used the Hissatzu. In my hazy state knife laws they repeatedly talk about "legal" knives having the ability to perform utility tasks.
I tend to leave my single purpose knives at home, and I limit (I try)my purchases of primarily fondling knives.
 
To me knife making seems to be an art. I don't believe art is constrained by considering morality. My two cent.
 
The Spyderco civilian even says on the Spyderco website this knife is not for everyday carry and was developed specifically to be used as a weapon. Different knives for different purposes. I see nothing immoral about making a knife specifically designed as a weapon. If that's what you're into more power to you.
 
I don't think morality has much if anything to do with knives or their makers. Any knife, even one designed and used as a weapon, can be used in moral ways (self-defense or as a deterrent for example). Maybe that argument wouldn't be palatable to a pure pacifist that believed "no violence under any circumstances." But I think most people - most religions - teach that one can morally apply force when faced with a threat of harm and/or oppression. Any who didn't probably got wiped out by bad guys thousands of years ago.

The funny thing about violence is that often both sides feel morally justified in their actions. Morality is very subjective. Whose morals are you going to impose upon your business, if not your own? What do *you* think about it?

I like your motto. I don't think it's cheesy. But then again, I can be pretty cheesy so consider the source :D
 
The morality comes in the use, not the making. A Hissatsu is not immoral.

You are talking about your designs. I suspect a fighter design would not be something that crosses your mind. Stick with things you have an affinity for.
 
Theres no Crying in Baseball!!

If someone is willing to make it, im sure there will be someone who will buy it, otherwise there would be no mall ninja scene, or knives with names like "death on contact"...
 
Most tools can be used as weapons. You should be trying to design a good useful knife. A knife that cannot be employed as a weapon would be very limited as a tool as well.

n2s
 
"Morality" is a broad term. OP seems to assume that using a knife as a weapon is somehow immoral. Some people feel all violence is immoral, others feel that varying degrees of self defense are moral. I think it's mostly a fruitless thought exercise though, just as an example an ordinary hammer makes a decent weapon even though it was designed purely for driving nails into wood.

Personally I would like to see fewer pointy knife designs in the future. I don't have a problem with knives being designed with stabbing in mind but I just like the look of sheepsfoots, reverse tantos, etc. They look different and it's pretty rare that I ever stab anything.
 
BlueRabbit said:
I've been collecting, drawing and designing knives for years. I plan to start making them once I have the space to install a home forge. My normal design philosophy is "utility, not hostility". Kinda cheesy, but it sums everything up my preference for blades that are primarily tools. An ink pen and a hammer can both be adapted to weapons, but it's not there primary function.

I wanted to start a discussion about whether or not there is room for moral philosophy in knife design, or if it is best left to form following function. I admire and own a few tactical knives, and I think a true "tactical" knife is one that best represents both the tool and weapon aspects. A "fighter" is one that is primarily a weapon. If you look at the CRKT Hissatsu, it is designed as a weapon from the ground up. It's strong point, thick spine, curved edge, and narrow blade width are designed specifically for slashing and penetration. You'd have a hard time trying to use it for much else. Now lool at a BK2: thick spine, but with a wide blade, partially straight edge, and comparatively blunt point mark it as primarily a working knife.

So. Is there room in knife design for morality? Or do form and function cover it? You wouldn't try to stab someone with a sheep's foot blade, but if you were designing a knife for stabbing, you wouldn't use a sheep's foot in the first place. If I'm trying to design something with a conscious eye towards it not being used as a weapon, am I limiting myself? Am I limiting the design? A reinforced point is handy for a multitude of tasks, but it's also very good for stabbing. Then again, if someone is in a desperate situation, they aren't going to think about intended purpose. They will use whatever is handy to defend themselves.

What are your thoughts?
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Thoughtful thread op.

I think it is the person who you sell/give the knife to that will be the moral side more than the knife design. Many people have weapons collections with no intent to ever use them. My dad has a friend with over 60 pistols, but when he was robbed by a young punk and pistol whipped he was too nice to fight back or even pull his gun out. Even a sheep's foot held at someone's neck is dangerous.

I think when it comes to your knife designs, that is art as well as creating a tool and you are best following your heart and keeping in mind the function that it has, but I see no reason to limit yourself because others' moral ineptitude.
 
BlueRabbit said:
Is there room in knife design for morality?
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I would say absolutely, yes!. Your personal philosophy or morality can be imbued into your designs, it can be a tool just as a pen and paper are used to flesh out your knife designs. How a knife comes to exist is a culmination of many factors, some tangible, some intangible. IMO, to say that morality has no seat at the table is perfunctory. Morality is on par with concept, thought, reason, or any other ideal that drives you to be creative. We're talking morals........an individual's set of standard beliefs regarding (to them) what is and is not acceptable. So yes, I think morality can play a part.

But sadly, as the designer, you have no control how people employ your designs. Your intentions for your designs and the consumers intentions will probably be different. But that shouldn't stop you from designing the knives the way you want. You never know, someone someday may understand how your knife came to be and buy is specifically for that reason.

I buy Ford vehicles because they took no bail out money from Uncle Sam. I know that's an extreme simplification, but it matters to me.
I buy Apple iPhones because i appreciate the intensity and tenaciousness that was Steve Jobs and the product he developed.

What drives people to buy certain things? Only they know. It could be the morality they see or feel in your design...........or it could be because it's sharp, pointy, and throws lots of sparks from a firesteel.
 
If I'm trying to design something with a conscious eye towards it not being used as a weapon, am I limiting myself? Am I limiting the design?
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Not necessarily, you are however choosing to not do something which may have cross functionality. IMO you should design them for function as a tool and not worry about it's use as a weapon. The most common knife styles used in attacks are kitchen knives. Would you purposely redesign a kitchen knife to prevent it's use as a weapon even if it compromised it's versatility as a kitchen knife?
 
I don't get it. Knife designs do not have morality. They are inanimate objects. You can design your knives to be "moral" and I can buy some, put them in sock and beat the bejeebus outta old nuns, orphans, and puppies with it.

You cannot imbue an object with morality, so just make whatever you want.

Silly nonsense.
 
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