Moran

Picked up one of the "old" convex-edge polished Morans before they disappeared. As you guys may know, knives in this class are my absolutely favorite fixed knives. Small to medium-sized, wicked thin edge fixed blades are the ones I use most often, even out camping. What people are doing with those 9" camp knives, I'll never know.

I haven't cut with this knife, but looks and ergonomics-wise it appears to be a winner so far. The edge is as sharp as everyone has been saying -- really really beautiful job by Spyderco on that edge.

Now if I ever find the guy who designed that leather sheath, I'll be tempted to sharpen my Moran on him
smile.gif


Joe
 
Sal Glesser

Sal Glesser

Moderator
Joined
Dec 27, 1998
Messages
11,671
Sorry Joe, I think you'll like the new sheath. One great thing about reality is that tomorrow always provides another opportunity to improve.

IMPROVEMENT IS OUR EVOLUTIONARY OBLIGATION TO HUMANKIND!

SAL
 
Sal begins to sound alot like Confucius since the induction. Or is it the artistic side of his Ninja training?
 
NVV - I've had many teachers. Basics that I've learned, I try to share. Improvement is an essential. Indivdually, as a community, as a nation. Evolution and change are inevitable. The dinosaurs that survived are called "lizards". (Sorry Joe, didn't mean to mess up your thread). Let's just call the leather sheath the "dinosaur".
sal
 
Just a nit to pick: The dinosaurs that survived are called "birds." Lizards are not all that closely related to the dinosaurs.
They branched off from the line that led to dinosaurs early. They're sort of cousins. Birds are direct descendents of dinosaurs.


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Paul Neubauer
prn@bsu.edu
 
Paul and Sal -- Maybe we should call the old sheath an archeopteryx and the new one, let's say, an eagle. How's that sound?

Joe -- I agree with you 100% on the small to medium FB thing. I like the big knife/small knife theory rather than the "one knife for all purposes" idea. My question for you is what do you consider the upper limit on a small to mid size blade? 5"? 6"? 7"?

Sal -- any chance of a larger Spydie FB?

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Clay Fleischer
clay_fleischer@yahoo.com




[This message has been edited by CD Fleischer (edited 18 June 1999).]
 
Sal -

Are there any plans to make the new sheath available to those of us with the original leather sheaths? Inquiring minds want to know...

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A mind all logic is like a knife all blade. It makes bleed the hand that uses it.
-Rabindranath Tagore

 
Boy, talk about topic drift ...

The dinosaur to birds theory seems to be far from general acceptance among paleontologists. Or has there been a big shift?

Clay: I like my little knife to be mostly unnoticeable, carry-weight wise. Practically, for me this limits the blade length to 4", maybe 4.5" at most. For food prep reasons, I do often stick to the high-end of that. E.g., Deerhunter, AFCK, and TTKK have all served as my small knife in the field, and are all 4" blades.
 
The Moran is a slick knife, but I'd like a bigger work knife (not huge, but a little bigger).

Things I would want--

--About a 4.5" drop point blade. I worry about the trailing point when I'm gutting.

--Handle/guard design to allow sharp-edge-up hold when gutting with index finger along side of blade and web of thumb up against finger guard. Want the handle and guard to allow me to safely choke-up on the grip very close to the blade for control and leverage--either in hammer grip or hammer grip with the edge up.

--No choil for maximum leverage when I'm ripping through a brisket--I use that last 1" to do the work.

Why shouldn't a Colorado company make the ultimate Elk knife. The Moran is a bit too small.

While you're at it could you make a 6"-7" boning knife out of VG-10?

[This message has been edited by Jeff Clark (edited 18 June 1999).]
 
Wow! lotta action. Paul, assuming the dino/bird theory is true and accepted; The diosaurs "Improved/evolved,refined/changed" into birds. They did not stick with the leather sheath. By the way, Crocodiles are still around and relatively unchaged since the dino age.

Whitebear - The new sheath should fit the old model and will be available at least through the Spyderco Factory Outlet (SFO) if dealers won't stock it.

Clay/Jeff - We're working on a few FB. One is a 4.5" with a blade shape like the Calypso Jr. I imagine, once tooled for the handle, other blades could be added. Other than that, we're still watching the Moran.
 
Hi!

Sorry Sal, I think the Moran was a great knife. I think I'm the only one here that likes good leather sheaths. I've only seen a picture of the Moran leather sheath, haven't handled it... so I don't know if it's good or not. But it is much better looking than the new ugly one.

What I'd like to know is what is the usage the Moran was designed for? I mean I always thought it was a camping knife (I think that's what it says in your adds). If it's still a camping knife, then why does a camping knife need a ugly tactical sheath? Or is the Moran now suddenly tactical as somebody already claimd in another thread? What makes a tactical knife? In this case it would suprisingly be the sheath.

Anyways I hope you can take my criticism. I did like the old Moran, and it's still on my to-buy-list. Can't afford it now
frown.gif
, and if I can't find one of the old ones when I have the money (darn expensive here in Finland) it will most likely be changed to Fjällkniven F1. It's about the same size, in about the same price category, has same qualities (including flat ground and VG-10), seems much more rugged and confident, is better looking and has a proper leather sheath. Sorry guys, I'm not trying to start a war here, just expressing my feelings about the new Moran and it's competition. The old Moran had an edge (had to
wink.gif
) over the F1, but the new one doesn't.

I don't think the new Moran is bad, no. I just think that the old one was better for what it was designed to be.

In the mean time though... I'm waiting to get my excellent looking plain-edge Starmate. Are the ones produced now still numbered? How many will be numbered? I don't care much for the numbers. I'd like to get one without a number. How long will I have to wait?

Harri.


[This message has been edited by Harri (edited 19 June 1999).]
 
Harri - There were three problems with the leather sheath;

1) It was too heavy. The knife is a "liteweight" made with modern materials and very refined design. The sheath needed to be lighter and more in balance with the modern materials of the knife.

2) The knife is so sharp, that if put into the sheath incorrectly, it would pierce the sheath with little effort. We used thick high grade leather, but the Moran cuts leather fairly easily.

3) The cross draw sheath was disliked by many. The new sheath can be snapped to a belt (without unbuckling the belt) and can be set in a variety of carry positions.

Bill said that he designed this knife slowly over a 40 year period. He used it for everyday tasks around the shop or in the woods. The large curve allowed him to easily cut leather, using it like a leather knife. It worked wlll around camp for small cutting tasks, food prep and general utility.

"Camp Knives" as they are called, are large (10"+ / 260mm+) and are used for chopping tasks. You may not wear/carry it with you all day, but you would get it when you needed it for a particular task. A "Camping knife" would be one that you would wear/carry with you all the time.

The Fallkniven F1 is designed for the same purpose and as you say, uses the same steel. I have an F1 and it is an excellent piece. I didn't design either model, so I cannot explain the thinking process that led to the design. (I can explain why I design features into a model). I'm sure there is very specific reasoning down to the finest detail.

The Moran (85gr)is considerably lighter than the F1 (144gr) and the new kydex sheath is lighter than the F1 leather sheath (although the leather sheath is beautifully made).

AS far as it being "Tactical"??? I always thought that "tactical" was relative to "time" or "timely". A tactical response to something was "time" critical. Now we have "things" being tactcial by type. Not sure of the exact meaning. (I have another thread started on the general forum asking that question). I don't think of the Moran as tactical unless you use it "tactically" or responding to a time critical situation.

Please don't stop the criticism, that is how we learn what people think and truth is still the highest value.

There is no "one size fits all" and there is no "one product pleases all". Modern technology permits very high degrees of specialization. Almost "Custom made" when the whole spectrum of variety is seen.

Hope this answers your questions.
sal
 
Hello Sal!

Thanks for the answer (and the patience for my rant
wink.gif
).

I think I've made my point about the old/new Moran and their sheaths... one comment though; Sounds like you didn't have anything inside the leather sheath. Usually leather sheaths do have something inside to protect the leather. Moran isn't the only one that would cut the leather easily. Just a small part of a plastic (kind of material) sheath inside the leather. But I guess you must know this all... just didn't do it for some reason.

Tactical or not??? I read the thread that you pointed at. It was very interesting thread, but I must admit that I still would not be able to say if a knife is tactical or not.
smile.gif
I did already ask on this forums a while ago what makes the Starmate to be tactical. It seemed to be very hard to say; somebody said in one reply that one reason was the reputation and history of the designer Bob T. So I guess it's very hard to say. Unfortunately I'm noticing to be inclined to think that every knife can be tactical today - it's just a marketing thing. And in this respect I must say that I've never thought of any Spyderco to be tactical, not even Military despite of it's name.

One more maybe off-topic comment since I'm at it. James K. Mattis (I think) replied once that it's always function before beauty at Spyderco. I also think that it's the case, but the more knives I own the more I'm looking at the beauty side of the knives. Keep up the collaborations - BUT don't forget that the Military isn't ugly at all!

Harri

[This message has been edited by Harri (edited 22 June 1999).]
 
Harri,

Speaking as an ELU (user) of the old Moran, the old leather sheath, and the River City kydex sheath...

The old leather sheath, while looking great, was not in keeping with the utility of the Moran, in my opinion. It was heavy (like Sal mentioned), verystiff (at least in the time that I used it; never really got broken in), bulky, and IMO not very weather resistant. In contrast, the knife itself is light, small, fits the hand like a glove, and appears to be ready to take on any environment (OK, maybe not diving; but any reasonable environment). It begs to be used, but the leather sheath just made it difficult. It was a PAIN to extract the knife from the leather sheath.

I expect the newer Moran to be JUST as good and just as useful, if maybe not as pleasing to the eye (satin finish). Now, if Sal comes out with a FB in a drop point, I'm just gonna die (hint, hint, Sal). I managed to weasel my way with the BF Native even after my wife found out the cost, but at the expense of cutting myself off from purchases for a while. Like my friend always says, in marriage, you have to choose your battles wisely
wink.gif
.

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Work hard, play hard, live long.
Outlaw_Dogboy

 
I don't know how I missed the dinosaur bit before, they are one of my favorite hobbies. With all of the recent discoveries in China (Protoarchaeoptryx, Sinosauropteryx, Confuciusornis, and a new, unnamed feathered Therizinosaur) of feathered dinosaurs and very early birds, there seems to be little doubt left about the dinosaur/bird evolutionary progression, are a few, very vocal, opponents still out there.

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Walk in the Light of God,
Hugh

 
Hmmm . . . Another Spyderco fixed blade . . .

Pant! Lust! Drool!
wink.gif


One thing that's largely missing from the market is a "Hobbit Chef's Knife" - a drop-point, drop-edge knife with about a 4" blade and clearance to have the whole edge work on a flat surface like a cutting board, and also useful in the woods. The Boye Basic fixed blades are in that configuration, but the steel handles are a bit slippery.

Fans of the convex edge in VG10 still have two Fallknivens to choose from - the new S1 and the newer WM. I was favorably impressed by the new version of the Spyderco-Moran and its sheath that I met at the Blade Show.


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
 
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