More etched SS please!

[stabman]

I like the heft of SS handles, but I'm not keen on the slipperiness.
I love the look of the etched Cricket and Spin; why not etched SS Police and Endura models(and Lava)?
The tooling costs would not change, it would look cool, and is sufficiently grippy for those of us who want that.
They should still be available in regular SS for those who wish to engrave(not me!!!), but having the etched ones as well seems like a good idea.
I know I'd buy an etched Police(and a Lava, and an Endura...).

 

[mark greenman]

Yes, I too have been craving more etched knives.

Regular Production- Cricket SE, Delica/Endura wave (the standard models seem to get all the attention) Lava if sales permit.

Sprint Run- Massad Ayoob baby! That would be the ultimate classy tactical IMHO, and would solve the lack of grip without an increase in width. One day.

 

[redneckone]

Yes, etch all stainless handles

 

[TIZWIN]

My definition of "groovy":

Police model, etched, four-way clip option, plain-edged, waved, with lanyard hole.

Grooovy.

 

[redneckone]

Etched Police, 4 way clip option, with ball lock.

 

[batosai117]

Etched Police, 4 way clip option, with ball lock.

I second this motion :thumbup:

 

[A.P.F.]

I would go for an etched Police, but leave it as is where any other changes are concerned.

 

[swingshot]

Sprint Run- Massad Ayoob baby! That would be the ultimate classy tactical IMHO, and would solve the lack of grip without an increase in width. One day.

Sprint runs of discontinued knives are deliberately made in such a way so as to to not devalue the original. An acid etched Ayoob isn't going to happen.

 

[zenheretic]

Sprint runs of discontinued knives are deliberately made in such a way so as to to not devalue the original. An acid etched Ayoob isn't going to happen.

I'm sorry how would that devalue the original? Sprint runs won't copy the same color for example, but if Sal wanted, he certainly could change the handle to G-10 or in this case etch it if he wished. Neither would have an effect on the original. Look at the (theoretically) Sprint Run of the Lum, it is exactly the same as past Lums but with a different handle color and blade steel. He could have easily put on an etched handle.

 

[swingshot]

I'm sorry how would that devalue the original?

I'm going to quote someone else on this one.

Yes, I too have been craving more etched knives. ....
Sprint Run- Massad Ayoob baby! That would be the ultimate classy tactical IMHO, and would solve the lack of grip without an increase in width. One day.

At least one person in this thread sees it as an improvement over the original Ayoob.

Since we're all speculating anyway, lets assume Mark Greenman is representivative of a larger number of people who would like an Ayoob
and view an Acid etched handle as an improvement.

After obtaining this (improved) Acid Etched handle Ayoob how many of these people would seek the original Ayoob?

We don't know the answer. It's a fair guess however that at least some of them would be happy with the Acid Etched version and would no longer seek the almite version.

Less demand potentially has a negative effect on the secondary market value of the original Ayoob. It stands to penalise those who have already made the effort to obtain one.

Sprint runs won't copy the same color for example, but if Sal wanted, he certainly could change the handle to G-10 or in this case etch it if he wished. Neither would have an effect on the original. Look at the (theoretically) Sprint Run of the Lum, it is exactly the same as past Lums but with a different handle color and blade steel.

1) So would adding G10 mean interframed inlays?

2) Or a thinner metal frame with the G10 making up the rest of the thickness?


3)Or a metal frame with the same thickness plus additional thickness from new G10 overlays?

The first two i'm guessing will mean retooling costs. Possibly not viable on a Sprint Run of an otherwise discontinued knife.

The third changes the feel of the knife.

He could have easily put on an etched handle.

How easily exactly?

Are you suggesting acid etched aluminum? Or would that mean a change to steel handles?

(I honestly don't know for certain if Acid etched aluminium handles can be produced.)


I'm not an expert on the cost of changing handle materials, or retooling handles for a limited run on a discontinued knife so if you have evidence to suggest that such a thing is viable, i think quite a few of us would like to see it.

IIRC, Sal has said in the past that a minimum run of 10,000 units each was necessary for the Acid Etched Cricket, Spin and Dragonfly to be produced and they all had steel handles anyway.

A Sprint Run (Less than 1500 units according to this year's Spyderco catalog) Ayoob which switches from Almite to Steel handles AND is Acid Etched seems very very unlikely to me.

 

[stabman]

Good to see more people than just me think more etched SS is a good idea.

 

[zenheretic]

Swingshot, I'm as aware as anyone not in the manufacturing business about the retooling costs. They were examples nothing more.

As far as sprint runs go, your premise is incorrect. Making the sprint run better than the original is on the table as an option, should they choose to persue it.

You may not feel this way, but many would find a steel upgrade in a sprint as an option that makes a sprint more desirable than some old version with yesteryear's steel. There are plenty of examples of Sprint runs with a better steel than the original. Improving the handle is no different than upgrading the blade steel.

They will not make a sprint exactly like the original, everything else is possible, but unlikely due to costs, as you mention.

 

[swingshot]

Improving the handle is no different than upgrading the blade steel..

There's no debating about blade steel changes. It's been done many a time.

Off the top of my head, i can't think of a Sprint Run that changed from an Almite handle to a Steel one though.

Anyone?

 

[zenheretic]

There's no debating about blade steel changes. It's been done many a time.

Off the top of my head, i can't think of a Sprint Run that changed from an Almite handle to a Steel one though.Anyone?

The point of this exchange was your supposition that it wouldn't have a handle change due to the risk of devalueing the original because everyone would want the sprint. You have yet to demonstrate that as true.

 

[zenheretic]

Behold:
http://spyderco.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=393375

Hi Michael,

"limited" production means that we can't make as many as we may want. The skills required to make certain models are great, take many years to learn, and the capacity for a factory to make that model is limited to a certain amount per month. Usually about 200 pcs per month.

Models like the Stretch2, Caly3 (especially in CF), E4 & D4 in G-10, Micro Dyad, P'kal, Civilian, etc. are generally limited to about 200 pcs per month.

"Sprint" runs are a re-make of a model that we've made in the past. We can make a short run, (500 - 2,000) with a different handle material or color, or an upgrade in steel, but no new tooling is required.

sal

 

[swingshot]

The point of this exchange was your supposition that it wouldn't have a handle change due to the risk of devalueing the original because everyone would want the sprint. You have yet to demonstrate that as true.

Where did i say *everyone* would want the Sprint Run?

 

[Slatts]

After obtaining this (improved) Acid Etched handle Ayoob how many of these people would seek the original Ayoob?

We don't know the answer. It's a fair guess however that at least some of them would be happy with the Acid Etched version and would no longer seek the almite version.

Less demand potentially has a negative effect on the secondary market value of the original Ayoob. It stands to penalise those who have already made the effort to obtain one.

I highly doubt that Spyderco cares whether bringing back a model as a sprint run would lower the value of the original, discontinued model. Why would they care about the secondary market? They've already sold the knife and don't benefit from the reselling of the same item. I'm sure there is some prestige that bolsters brand image associated with the collectibility of discontinued models. But, last time I checked they are a business that needs to make a profit like anyone else. If they think a sprint run of an old classic will sell well and generate acceptable margins, I'm sure they would consider it.

 

[mark greenman]

After obtaining this (improved) Acid Etched handle Ayoob how many of these people would seek the original Ayoob?

We don't know the answer. It's a fair guess however that at least some of them would be happy with the Acid Etched version and would no longer seek the almite version.

Less demand potentially has a negative effect on the secondary market value of the original Ayoob. It stands to penalize those who have already made the effort to obtain one.

.

I don't know about you, but I've already sunk a cool amount of change into the original. I spent $200 for my first, a NIB SE with the original jet-black almite, and I just spent $108 on a used PE in the less slippery, "battleship grey" handle color. Hell, I even joined Bladeforums last year so that I could vote in the "massad ayoob thread" for planned improvements to the model.

You say that a sprint run will bring down secondary values. It may indeed (although a SS model would be heavier and not black, so its not a total sweep.) Despite my relatively (for me, anyway) large capital investment in the artificially expensive originals, I still don't give a damn if my investment evaporates overnight if it means that the world at large can enjoy a superior tool. The Massad Ayoob wasn’t designed to impress idle collectors, it was designed to save lives, and so I think that withholding much needed improvements on the grounds that it may hurt a secondary market is selfish at best. Now, if it hurt Sal or Mass’s pockets, that’s a different story.

Whether I’m playing with it at my desk, or my life is on the line in some SHTF scenario, I for one would like a SS etched Ayoob, and think that a 2000 piece sprint would sell.

 

[stabman]

Whether I’m playing with it at my desk, or my life is on the line in some SHTF scenario, I for one would like a SS etched Ayoob, and think that a 2000 piece sprint would sell.

That's the spirit.:thumbup:

 

[zenheretic]

Where did i say *everyone* would want the Sprint Run?

Being deliberately obtuse is no way to communicate.

At least one person in this thread sees it as an improvement over the original Ayoob.

Since we're all speculating anyway, lets assume Mark Greenman is representivative of a larger number of people who would like an Ayoob
and view an Acid etched handle as an improvement.

After obtaining this (improved) Acid Etched handle Ayoob how many of these people would seek the original Ayoob?

We don't know the answer. It's a fair guess however that at least some of them would be happy with the Acid Etched version and would no longer seek the almite version.

Less demand potentially has a negative effect on the secondary market value of the original Ayoob. It stands to penalise those who have already made the effort to obtain one.

.....

You didn't say "everyone", but you did infer enough to cause the original to deflate in value.