More important: Toughness or edge holding (7 inch fixed)?

J

J.Davey

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Feb 10, 2004
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I was just wondering what people find more important in a fixed blade of this size. It's not quite chopper-sized, but also not normal utility size. I personally like this blade length for an all around outdoor knife (although, I do love machetes and choppers...and neck knives...and folders...and everything in between). Now, you have identical knives in construction, but LET'S SAY one is 5160 at 57-59RC, and one is M2 at 61-62RC. Obviously, the M2 will hold an edge longer, but will take longer to sharpen and not be as tough.

Personally, I'd prefer the 5160. I know how to sharpen a knife pretty well after years of practice, so edge holding isn't that huge of a deal (to a certain extent; I don't want to have to sharpen it every five minutes).

So, what would you prefer and why?
 
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I think that what the knife will be used for would be the most important thing.
 
elkins45 said:
What is the purpose of a knife if not to take and hold an edge?
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It will hold an edge. Let's try to stay realistic here and avoid the comments that contain no actual input. These are two big things when it comes to steel selection. It's not like I'm comparing M2 to 420J2.
 
I see this as pretty personal depending on how you like to use a knife. For me, in a knife that big I definitely want to be able to use it hard and not worry about it, so not being familiar with M2 in a big blade I would go with your choice of 5160. In my case, I really like Swamp Rat's SR101 (I believe this is a 52100 variant) in a knife that size. It is very strong and tough and holds an edge well. My current favorite "all-arounder" is the RatManDu (RMD) which is a little shorter, but seems like a good size for me.
 
both, CPM M4, Vanadis 4 Extra, CPM 3V, Sleipner, PD#1, etc. If you have a need for toughness at the level of 5160, then you don't need a knife for whatever you're doing.
 
J.Davey said:
Typical camp and survival chores that are talked about a lot; cutting soft and semi-hard materials, batoning, shelter making.
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Any good steel would be fine at proper hardness.

5160, 1095, 3V, 52100, A2 etc all would be fine.
 
I'd rather err on the side of toughness. I don't cut so much abrasive material that I need supreme edge holding. But I have hit the odd staple and nail. I'm not often deep in the wild so the choice isn't that critical for me. But if the choice is between a few extra touch up or a chip I'll take the touch ups. YMMV

Frank
 
Okay, I was only using the 5160 and M2 as examples because those are the two that popped into my head. Pick the steels of your choice. Personally, on just about any knife over 5 inches, I'd prefer 3V. I've used it before, and I think it offers the best of both worlds. I'm just asking what people prefer. I tend to agree with SilverFox. I don't want something overly soft, but I also don't want something that can't be readily sharpened with a basic sharpening tool (or that will take me an hour to sharpen when in the field).
 
Since when is M2 not a tough steel?!

Look at what Rockstead does with ZDP-189!

Steel doesn't inherently denote tensile strength, the quality of the stock, the heat treatment, blade geometry and edge angle + styles etc. all have a factor in the overall "toughness".
 
forcedestrike said:
Since when is M2 not a tough steel?!

Look at what Rockstead does with ZDP-189!

Steel doesn't inherently denote tensile strength, the quality of the stock, the heat treatment, blade geometry and edge angle + styles etc. all have a factor in the overall "toughness".
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Did you not understand the original post, OR the follow up above? Brick wall.
 
I think I would pick better edge holding. I'm not sure how much toughness one really needs unless you're prying a car door open with the knife. All I know is, I've seen people pry, baton, and whack a ZT 0301 with S30V. And I know strider makes a few S30V fixed blades as well with an even tougher heat treatment recipe.

Besides which, I like stainless steels over carbon ones, though I can appreciate how tough a machete can be despite rusting so fast that I can see it happening.

And my policy is to have a knife that stays sharp throughout the day, as I prefer touchups at the end of the day rather than having to touch up in the middle of doing something.

Again, it would depend on what you're doing with the knife. I've only ran into chipping issues if my edge touches dirt, metal, or stone. So if I expected to run into those things regularly(or whacking tree branches), I'd go for toughness first. But if I'm only cutting with my knife, even if it's hard wood, I'd go for edge retention.
 
If you just want a real tough full tang knife with 5mm thick carbon steel 7" blade then you might want to look at the coldsteel true flight thrower. I have seen it for 22$.
 
In other words I would choose the tougher knife because it's cheaper and a knife can be useful even if the edge isn't too great.
 
"Toughness or edge holding ?". Two things which can't be opposed or compared. Toughness contributes to edge holding as do strength, wear resistance and stain resistance. Toughness (ability to take impacts) can be opposed to strength (ability to take loads). The most noticeable difference between 5160 and M2 will be in the wear resistance.

dantzk.
 
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