More thoughts on this forum and how it could cause WWIII

medusaoblongata

medusaoblongata

Joined
May 1, 2000
Messages
2,259
Since the last thread was locked, I'm starting this new one. Comments and thoughts from others welcome.

BFC is about knives. This forum is not about knives. W&C is not about knives. Gadgets & Gear, Community, and Politics are, for the most part, not about knives.

We've seen lots of people sign up here, post a question or two in search of a good knife. Once they find one, they never return to BFC, because they got what they needed out of it. You see other people who have been here so long they don't ask questions about knives any more? What are they doing here at BFC at all? How many times have we heard someone say they "came for the knives and stayed for the people"?

This forum and W&C is not about knives. They're both about people. BFC doesn't need these forums. The people want them. Do these forums detract from BFC's mission? I don't see how they interfere with anything outside of themselves. This forum, with cusswords and pornography, is not what BFC is about, it's not necessary to BFC, and no one would cry or lose a knife if it disappeared - but the people want it. They (we) want a place for everything that doesn't fit anywhere else on BFC. It's not necessary, but I don't see how it gets in the way. We don't need this forum, but what we want is an unmoderated forum. W&C was supposed to be an unmoderated forum, but lack of password and legal issues made that an impossibility, so the idea here is to try again for an unmoderated forum. We don't need the porn, we don't need anything. We want to do whatever we want to do. And it shouldn't hurt or interfere with anything else anyway. We should keep W&C as well because not everyone can get in here, and many arguments are resolved in W&C that wouldn't fit as well in any other forum. Mike "dumbass" Turber wanted to know if this forum is appropriate for BFC - if BFC is a member-driven site, and members want this forum, then this forum will only be what the members make of it, and who's to say that's not what they want?

BFC is a public forum, open to the general public, for the purpose of educating people about knives. It does that job exceptionally well. This forum is private, it is for paying BFC members only, and is not about knives, it is for, and about, whatever the members of this private forum want it to be about.

I know there are people who don't like this forum, but there's no reason they can't just stay out. I never, or almost never, go into the slipjoint forum, the kukri forum, the JSP forum, Gurka House, TiKnives, Schrade, and others. If they mysteriously vanished overnight I wouldn't even notice. You don't hear me rallying to get rid of them. They don't bug me. If someone else doesn't want anything to do with this forum, it's reall easy to just not click on it. It is possible to log out of BFC, and there's no excuse for not watching what your own children do. I can understand why certain people would not like this forum, but I can't understand how leaving it here will affect them, as they can just stay out. In fact, by allowing this forum to remain as a place for that which is inappropriate for the rest of BFC, this forum will serve the purpose of keeping all that naughty, offensive stuff (like the human body) out of the rest of the forums. Good for everybody.
 
Originally posted by medusaoblongata


I know there are people who don't like this forum, but there's no reason they can't just stay out.
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You're preaching to the choir, bro.

and re: this -
<b>You see other people who have been here so long they don't ask questions about knives any more? What are they doing here at BFC at all? How many times have we heard someone say they "came for the knives and stayed for the people"? </b>

I fall into that category for the most part. <b> But..</b>
I moderated Spyderco's forum and was the best Customer Service that that place had ever seen, or has seen since. I've paid my dues to be here, and yet now I <i>rarely </i> talk about knives on the forums. I continuously make deals here and elsewhere, and I <i> know my s&#104it.</i> I can name several people however, that are only here for the strokes and giggles, with no knife interest at all. I wish they'd shove off. (God, I want to name one...lol)

Ok, that's all.
 
The point of this forum and BFC in particualr is NOT to give you guys a place to hang out. The goal of BFC is something else. We (when I was owner) tried to cater to just about everyone and we did so in a way that offended very few, if any. We do not have a religous forum, a white male only forum (97+% of our members fit this category), we do not have a women only forum (as it would only have Danelle :D ).

No what we have is a forum about knives with a place for us to hang out and bull **** about other things. Community was created for non knife conversation that can be really anything, religous or whatever. I had one main rule when we (Spark and me) created this site.

NO PERSONAL ATTACKS!

Well what is a personal attack? That is when I call someone a name of infer something about their heritage or whatever. Spark was called a Nazi a few months back. Naturally he went balistic as I would have as well if I was him. A lot of people collect Nazi era knives and relics. Do you think Spark will ever open a Nazi forum? **** NO! Why not? It would not offend most of us here directly, right? I am sure we could have at least as many people in that forum as who frequent this one. The answer is that it is not the right thing to do.

BFC needs to remian as neutral as possible on nearly every subject thinkable as a organization. We are all allowed to have our private opinions and we can surf whatever web sites we want for porn, nazi ****, communist whatever, Christian this, Muslem that but BFC is not the place for ANY of it, PERIOD.

This forum opens up the door to a lot of problems that very few of us are thinking about now as it has not come up yet. So what do we do? Allow this forum to stay open until someone comes in here preaching the gosphel of Adolph Hitler? I am sure most all of us would punce on their ass pronto lickidy split, but then why? They have a damn good arguement, if we say anything goes, right?

Well NO. And this is where the buck stops and behind the scene policy is made. This forum has no place here. It allows to much freedom on a place where freedom of speech is NOT a freedom but a priviledge that is extended to each of us by Spark. The line has to be drawn somewhere and this is it.

Sure you can argue that things will calm down, but then guess what? Just like clock work every few weeks, someone somewhere has to start some **** and guess who has to clean it up? SPARK! We don't see 1/100th of the **** he has to do because we don't have to cruise every forum looking for it. Also each problem is not reported to the member list as a whole. He has to do it.

What happens when someone comes in here and asks how to build a bomb? I know how. Many of us know how. Who is liable when someone tells them how on a forum like this? It is just too much grey area to cover and it is NOT necessary to leave ANYONE open to that much liability for NO real gain. Simple as that.

So the simple question is this. Is this forum an asset, or a liability?

So if you see this forum disappear in the next few days, do me a favor. Don't go running to Spark saying he caved in. Applaud him for doing the right thing and making a sound business decision. Or better yet, send all the hate mail to me. I am used to it :D

In the end you will still have the greatest place on earth to hang out. We will all still be here as I sure as hell ain't going anywhere. Remember you guys made this place what it is and without you BladeForums would not be here. Those of you who have decided to hang around and have been here for a long time should understand the growing pains a site like this has to go through. This is just another growing pain.

We did not become the best knife site on the net by making mistakes. We became the best knife site on the net by learning from them.
 
This forum has my vote to STAY! Whatever Spark decides that will be fine, and I will still be here paying my membership. I did think W&C was great when it was password protected, and I think this forum is just what we need. Thats my opinion.
 
Outstanding post Jason! My sentiments, (now that you've put words to my thoughts), exactly!

--non-obligatory knife content--

I missed the big brown truck today...and will have to wait for my newest EDC wannabe until tomorrow...

Mel
 
Personally I think a forum like this should wait until vBulletin 3.0 comes along with it's content management system. That will once again allow for password protection. It could still be a paid members only forum. This software should be available in the near future.

It seems a lot of members want this forum. It also seems that a lot don't. The voting on Spark's thread was pretty well split on the issue. As far as I am concerned BF will do just fine with or without Pirate's Cove (I really do like that name a lot more than that current mess). If it does stay, I won't be a stranger. If it goes, I won't shed any tears.
 
Without me running to the web site for more info, what does the content management system do exactly? It sounds like you can control more of what is being posted autonomously.
 
Okay, so I am not really an ultra genius, but I don't see the problem.
This is not a porn forum, it is a private club. Anything goes, members only. Like a titty bar in town. Look at the sign and if it offends you, don't go in. It's real easy. No one can just sign up with BF and stumble in on accident. I really like this outlet and hope it can say. A private club for paying members just kicks ass!

I still can't see why, if you don't like it, stay out. Simple, eh?

Q: what do you call all the extra skin around a pussy ?

A: a woman.

magic bastid
 
The Jury is still out on this forum, we're consulting with legal professionals on it. Not suprisingly the porno died off quickly, just like I thought it would and it's become more of a "paying member clubhouse" where those who support the site come in and chat each other up.

This isn't an issue about "needs" because we really don't need the Community Center, W&C, Political Arena or Gadgets & Gear. It's more of a question of want & liability. I have no problem catering to the wants of the paying customers, as long as it doesn't open up a legal morass for us in return. Like I said, pending legal advice, we'll see what happens.

In the meantime, everyone don't make waves, sit back, and chill out. Time will tell whether or not this forum stays in its current incarnation, or slightly different form.

Kevin
 
Spark,
You are the man! We will of course abide by your descision.
I hope it can work, I just got the eye patch on my avatar.
Two things I would really like if it stays:

1.It must have the name Pirates Cove! (everyone already uses it)

2.Please make it for paying members only! Even if password protected, it should be the real supporters. Right?


I would not even mind a little Danelle moderation, no porn (hardcore?)
is cool. If we must. I would still want private, with anything goes,
language personal attacks. I think of this place like "Big Sparks Biker Bar" If I scratch my ass, fart and tell another member to f&#117ck off, it's cool. If it's just tghe porn thing, I can definately live without it. But we Pirates need our ship! Thanks.
 
Originally posted by Mike Turber
What happens when someone comes in here and asks how to build a bomb? I know how. Many of us know how. Who is liable when someone tells them how on a forum like this?
Click to expand...

I know that you are trying to make a point by using an argument that is pretty far out there, so I won’t address it directly. We have had people ask things like,”What knife would you use to (insert situation where somebody dies here)? Most of the time they aren’t taken seriously.

I think that as a whole, this group can be responsible for its own behavior. Yes I know that in the end, the management of BFC is responsible for what goes on here. That is not what I meant.

I don’t see how a member’s only forum can degrade the BFC community. Your reasons for not wanting it are many. I understand that it’s not just the “porn”. In actuality it sounds like you do not want ANY non-knife related forums. Is that it? (Not said with sarcasm by the way. Just a question?)

I think we could have a lot of fun in a forum like this.
 
Mike, I am not sure of everything that the content management system will do. The only thing I know for sure is that it will allow for password protecting forums. Sorry I didn't respond earlier, I missed your post.
 
Merlin,

Spark and I both set up community to give us places to talk about things that are not necessarily knife related. Just like when we go to the Shot Show or Blade Show, we don't just talk about knives. But this forum, with no rules at all, is a bit much.

I would think that we can discuss damn near anything, much like we would at a bar, but even there we would not hold up pictures like those posted here. We can still have a kick ass Pirate's Cove or whatever we want to call it but I would think that some moderation is not too much to ask for. And much like a bar if you feel the desire to discuss absolute taboo subject matter, use the PM feature.
 
Originally posted by Mike Turber
Merlin,

Spark and I both set up community to give us places to talk about things that are not necessarily knife related. Just like when we go to the Shot Show or Blade Show, we don't just talk about knives. But this forum, with no rules at all, is a bit much.

I would think that we can discuss damn near anything, much like we would at a bar, but even there we would not hold up pictures like those posted here. We can still have a kick ass Pirate's Cove or whatever we want to call it but I would think that some moderation is not too much to ask for. And much like a bar if you feel the desire to discuss absolute taboo subject matter, use the PM feature.
Click to expand...

Am I Merlin? Thanks! Anyway, I am on board for a loose moderated forum. Like W&C was when it first opened. I can do without porn, as that seems to be the big issue. I think we can all agree on a VERY Loosely moderated forum?

My most important wish is that it stays for paying members only.
I don't care what goes on, I just like being in an exclusive club.
I think it would be cool if you had a choice of user titles if you paid, at least give us a couple choices. Like Gold, premium, knifemaker, Pirate, Bastid, trollhunter (no?), and maybe a couple others. That way no one would have to take 10,000 individual requests for titles.

In closing, I consider this my final say. I agree with everyone, and no one. Not even me. As long as it is members only, I am happy and will renew, just for access. I will also renew at Gold (Pirate, please!) instead of premium. Thanks Spark for giving us our playground.
 
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