Mossberg Cruiser trivia....

M

mtngunr

Joined
Apr 10, 2005
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I am not making any suggestions and you will note on mine that i just do not think the 2.5"-3.0" length difference worth carrying a letter from ATF that such is legal and letter from Mossberg certifying this SN shipped with a pistol grip, BUT, some might find the trivia interesting....

Federal law does not consider a shotgun which ships with a pistol grip to be a shotgun....the definition states a shoulder fired weapon which propells shot.

It is a firearm, only, and listed as "other" in backgrounds check and paperwork (if done properly).

So laws regarding cutting down shotguns do not apply. Not at the federal level, nor in states which simply copy federal law, as mine does.

Where you DO run into a limitation is the one of overall length no less than 26" if it propels shot and a smooth bore....

This has led to people ordering up 14.5" or whatever LEO barrels and shorter magazines and installing on their Cruisers, but also ordering an extended knob pistol grip or fabricating their own to get the entire rig to 26.5".

The gun ships with an 18.5" bbl which extends 3" past end of magazine and overall length of 30", so a less costly and only 1/2" longer solution with more magazine capacity would be to simply cut the 3" and have a 27" gun....with 15.5" barrel and quite legal in many areas...you be the judge of how Officer Bob might react if you do not carry proof with you.

Anyhow, just another illustration of how when folk create laws, at same time they create loopholes not covered by those same laws, as any time you try to define what something IS, you immediately create a class of what is NOT.....and i just always found this particular instance fascinating in how things end up when laws meet the real world.

You will note no other major shotgun maker ships a gun with a pistol grip just for this very reason. They try to stay clear of the ramifications while Mossberg glories in it.....

 
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The disgusting part is if they shipped it with the real stock but included the pistol grip as optional which many do anyhow it would be a long gun and no issue.

I recently went through this when a Cabela's sent me a transfer form for this same gun. I told them they didn't need to it was a long gun, they said it was an "Other". They were right, I was wrong. There I admitted it.

With the pistol grip installed it's an "Other".

Personally I like a pistol grip full but short stock myself. I don't like a pistol grip alone, too unwieldly.

Goofy rules we live by.
 
Yes, if it ships with a buttstock, it is a long gun and legal shotgun (even with pistol grip installed later) and only barrel shortening which could be done would be 1/2" if you like living on the edge...otherwise, whether shorter than 26" in above discussion, or shorter barrel than 18" on the combo with buttstock as shipped, they become subject to fees and licenses and limitations as for transport across state lines and etc etc as registered controlled weapons under "any other weapon/AOW" or "short barreled shotgun/SBS" provisions under the NFA....

But the Cruiser alone is able dodge some of this.....but if anyone wants to play that game, i recommend buying a second barrel to play with in case loophole gets closed....which i consider a when thing rather than an if thing....

Another ramification (although it sounds like "other" was a problem for Bawanna), is that in most areas, "OTHER" is not a handgun, either, and not subject to handgun laws.....in my state, as with federal law, a handgun is a weapon....any other non-registered firearm such as "other" and long guns are not weapons and not subject to weapon laws.....suchlike a license required to carry open or concealed weapons.....so, if i were to wish to be a showboat trouble maker, i could stroll around downtown with the Cruiser in my hands and local police know they could do nothing but ask me some questions to make sure i was up to no harm while i continued to cause streets to empty.....such are the bizarre things possible when things get "regulated".....either total freedom for all to do as such would cause no ruckus, or an outright ban would stop such, but the half-measure poorly thought laws sew only confusion and often create criminals where no criminal intent existed.


As for handling of the pistol grip alone, i have taken quail and dove as i find them as they ship easy to instinctively point, while pretty sure any shorter would wreck that......totally different with a slug or buckshot magnum loads and harsh harsh harsh which destroys all pointing well for me due to flinch, so i stay with shorter/lighter loads which actually are far safer for anyone else at any distance while i am unaware of anyone who would continue to advance against a shotgun even if only rock salt.....
 
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My first shotgun was a Remington 870 Express. Actually it was my first firearm, period. Like most idiots, I put a pistol grip only on it, shot it 5 times and said, "Sonuffabuckmuthaeffasumbeach!"
Pistol grip or no, I much prefer a full stock. One of our regulars, a great friend, sold me an old Ithaca DSPS for a song. Try to pry that 12 gauge featherweight out of my hands. If I could only have one gun...ever (parish the thought) it would be that old slamfire Ithaca.
 
The thing with the cruiser "loophole" is that you may still find yourself spending long hours handcuffed in the back of a cruiser while they figure it out...all for something that's still 26"OAL...
 
Steely_Gunz said:
My first shotgun was a Remington 870 Express. Actually it was my first firearm, period. Like most idiots, I put a pistol grip only on it, shot it 5 times and said, "Sonuffabuckmuthaeffasumbeach!"
Pistol grip or no, I much prefer a full stock. One of our regulars, a great friend, sold me an old Ithaca DSPS for a song. Try to pry that 12 gauge featherweight out of my hands. If I could only have one gun...ever (parish the thought) it would be that old slamfire Ithaca.
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Shot a bunch of the old Ithacas. Very reliable, but painful to shoot with high brass.
On the pistol grip shotgun. It really takes away your ability to control recoil. Follow up shots are difficult, and it hurts the shooters hand like nothing else I've ever shot.
 
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J W Bensinger said:
The thing with the cruiser "loophole" is that you may still find yourself spending long hours handcuffed in the back of a cruiser while they figure it out...all for something that's still 26"OAL...
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As with any SBR/SBS/AOW, a determined gal or guy would need to have handy the above mentioned ATF letter and letter from Mossberg proving the gun qualified....a royal pain, and why personally i own no registered weapons whatsoever...and, of course, the interstate travel restrictions with same.

Most pump shotguns shorter than normal legal standard do not get much shorter than the 25"-26" length while maintaining useful enough capacity to be worth carrying.....there are shorter, but anything shorter than around 25" means a 3-shooter or a 2-shooter....

While simply bobbing a Cruiser back 3" gives 27" and a 5+1 shooter....or simply leave alone and a 5.5lb 30" gun quite handy.

I have owned parkerized Ithaca 37 "M&P" riot guns as well as Remington-made LEO top-folders. Quite long or heavy for something to be toted even only back and forth to car or truck daily and as with most such things ending up just sitting around the house

In the 5-5.5lb centerfire class pretty much live alone the Cruiser and the Trapper length M92-style lever action rifles in .38/.357/.44/.45Colt and the trappers are 34"...so the Cruiser gets my nod as most effective up close while least risk downrange to others.

In such a light gun, my normal load is the AA SuperSport 1300fps 1 1/8th oz 7 1/2 loads which only lack 1/8th to 1/4 oz less lead than heaviest 2 3/4" magnum but being a target load is far easier to control...any of the AA loads work well...hard shot (NOT found in most non-buffered hunting loads) minimizes spread at close range while beautiful game killing even spreads at the 20-35yd range where CYL bore shines....and good luck in court claiming "self-defense" at those ranges, while inside a house range the spread is more as a 40mm cannon and no risk of buckshot or slug visiting nextdoor neighbor and children.

Not optimal....nothing is....but works for me.
 
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Steely_Gunz said:
... Try to pry that 12 gauge featherweight out of my hands. If I could only have one gun...ever (parish the thought) it would be that old slamfire Ithaca.
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I hear ya Steely! Mine is a 1956. I inherited this one from my dad. He bought it new so it has never left the family. I cant image a pistol grip shotgun. Looks cool but sure would feel funky to get used to. I guess if you were breaching some tight spaces or on a boat or something it could come in handy?

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That is the ONLY advantage and use of the shorty with pistol grip.....tight quarters....such as inside vehicles or homes...constant transport between same and constant transport in vehicle.....pointed just below shoulder level is quite instinctive in pointing.....but if first thing a pistol grip shotgun owner does is go out and fire the heaviest game or anti-personnel load they can find, they will declare it useless and go back to whanging muzzles against car and house doorjambs and declare that far more useful......a tip for firing the pistol grip guns is to cycle fore and aft as if you hate it, and hold the forward pressure on slide handle as fired, which saves the web or thumb and only causes hot spots and maybe blisters to forward hand fingertips if fired with a great amount with heavy loads (which i do not recommend anyhow). Also for $60-$70 on ANY kicker of a shotgun, having the forcing cone ahead of the chamber lengthened and angle changed to something more open than industry 5° and polish of bore can do wonders for recoil, such as reduced by a whopping 1/3rd and highly recommended on older guns to save shooter and stock as many of those oldies have even more abrupt transition from chamber to bore.

Most folk do not pay attention to fact that speed is squared first and then multiplied by velocity, while mass/weight is simply multiplied by velocity when calculating impact....and also they miss that those shotloads with some fraction of an ounce more shot in heavy loads are generally the slowest....and most do not know that modern shot loads are over what 8 ga and 6 ga normally fired for best patterns and even spread...

So as with all typical Americans, baddest is always bestest....but both a pattern board and a 5.5 lb shotgun will show this is not so.....the hard shot 1200-1300 fps target loads ace anything in both symmetry and even density of shot spread and often put MORE lead on a target than field or anti-personnel loads with fliers and ragged uneven spread and fringes, and most other loads are slower, too.

Amusing trivia as well is choice of gun design.....the Ithaca 1937 is actually a gun design dropped by Remington in favor of their 1931 which was their answer in ball bearing shell shucker to the Winchester 1912, and proved far more durable than the Winchester. After legal wrangling and years of delay, Ithaca ended up producing the Loomis Remington design in 1937. And when Remington started angling for cheaper/faster production (and not as problem free or durable as the 1931), they came out with the M870....which turned out to work great and crushed the more expensive machined Winchester 1912 on the market and which was dropped when it became a $100 shotgun.....Winchester answered by cheapening entire line and never caught up after that in anything.....

MEANWHILE, both High Standard and Mossberg both basically copied the Remington M1931 action and ended up with the least problem, wear and breakage prone shotgun design of the lot......and pretty sure Mossberg today outsells Remington shotguns, especially with the cheaping of the Remington line in the last decade or two....and for those allergic to plastic as i am as for major gun parts, a Mossberg owner can send their trigger group to Mossberg who will swap to an aluminum housing group for $50.....try that with Remington on an Express.

A little shotgun history....they are all good Remington designs (two are by Loomis, i believe?)......pick one.....
 
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Is that a Foredom Flexshaft on the floor? A bit much for toenails, don't you think?(except mine)

 
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mtngunr said:
Is that a Foredom Flexshaft on the floor? A bit much for toenails, don't you think?(except mine)

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He he! Yep its a newer Foredom cheap arse piece of junk. Dumpster dive special for me so it was pretty cheap. I had a steel bodied 50's model that was bad to the bone but it burned down with my house. This one is good as you can get today but it works ok. They just dont make em like they used to. That is one tool that gets mass quantities of use. Anything with a 1/4 inch shank can be used and if you adapt a chuck you can use dremmel bits and everything else you can think of. I rewired this one with a foot controlled rheostat. Love it now! Almost everything in my shop is foot pedal operated. You always have a free foot but not always a free hand. Be it bench grinder, band saw, cut off tools, rotor tool, etc. That gives you two free hands and far better control especially when you need to control speed without using your hands. And yes I do my toenails with it via 2" drum sander. Them cheap arse chinese toenail clippers shatter trying to cut through my nails. Not kidding there.
That really is a cool Mossberg but you are talking specs way above my knowledge. Im just trying to visualize loosing the third point of control (shoulder) and emptying it out with any accuracy. I think it would be fun as heck to shoot some skeet. Once you get used to the recoil I suppose you could do pretty dang good with it? Sounds like fun!
As far as the Model 37 all that matters to me is that it can sure put lots of gumbo on the table and its never given me a lick of problem. My brother shot it for many years and my dad shot it back to 1956 and it has never had service, repairs, or anything done to it since day of purchase.
 
I actually got tired of moving and just plain walked away from stuff not getting use anymore, such as my bench, old Foredom with foot control, graver block etc.....a man can have too much junk and be slave to the stuff rather than other way around....i think everything i own now would fit in half a large U-haul and still too much....

The Ithaca and M31 and Mossberg are all quite similar, the latter two having a solid lifter and not also timed to unlatch a shell as another is ejected just before in same locality/port.....takes a lot lot of shooting or dirt to wear any of them out...but with the 37 if latch timing gets worn off spec enough, you will know by the fact when you stroke back the slide to eject the one in chamber, the contents of mag will spew out right with it.....easy fix....but for succeeding generations you ought to buy a pair of shell latches and firing pin....these are parts any shotgun owner should have on hand for when grandkids or great grandkids have a problem....and especially for a gun which is no longer made...

And SERIOUSLY, on most any shotgun today, and especially older ones, send the barrel to a specialist and have him recut the transition from chamber to barrel to eliminate what is almost a step....when that cup full of shot expanded to fill chamber hits that throat, and slows, the gasses behind it slam the bolt and your stock and your shoulder....the $60-$70 recut will work wonders for recoil and save the old stock....you may or may not know, but it was not until late 50's when Ithaca barrels became interchangeable, so take care of that one.
.

For toenails, nothing better in the world than high quality electrical flush cutters...i use these at work and home but there are others.
. but buy good stuff and never regret it....
http://stellartechnical.com/2422ecutter.aspx
 
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Eeek! DISCRIMINATION!!!!.....hand controlled and operated devices and tools are 99.99999 percent of all things made!!! Have you ever seen a screwdriver or eggbeater made to be footed rather than handled?!.......you leave our miserable one in a million foot operated device alone, Bawanna!
 
Whew.....the world is safe once more......don't get me started on silverware....it may as well be the Susquahannah Hat Company....
 
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