most economical way to purchase phenolic sheets(micarta)?

JG Custom Metal Works

JG Custom Metal Works

Joined
Nov 27, 2013
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I've been pricing thew stuff on knife making supplier websites and it just seems a little pricey. I've been making my own scales with bondo fiberglass resin and have been reading the negatives about it and wanna try some good stuff.

Are there any places to buy sheets of the stuff from that would be more affordable? I found a couple places but I wanna make sure its good to go for knife handles. Does this look like it would do?:

http://www.zoro.com/g/00093081/k-G0...pid=G0759403&gclid=CMT-zY7eqb4CFWgF7AodkW8A0A
 
The larger the sheet the better the price. Many phenolic suppliers, like the one you link, sell Garolite/Micarta in large sheets....up to 4X8 feet. Most knife suppliers sell it in 5X10" sheets and some in 12x1" sheets. Ebay and industrial suppliers are far cheaper than knife suppliers.
 
We buy our micarta and G10 directly from factories here in the US. That is why our prices are lower than eBay and industrial suppliers who sell US made materials.

The links listed have sheets priced less than our cost. I'm sure the material is from off-shore. Buyer beware. You get what you pay for.

Chuck
 
Well I just bought two sheets from that ZORO website I posted in the OP so we'll see how it turns out. I got one 12in X 24in X 1/4in and a 12" X 12" X 1/2" for $61 shipped. That's the cheapest I could find online. It's NEMA grade so hopefully it isn't CHICOM shit. I can't imagine that it's rocket science to make good micarta.
 
creature7 said:
I can't imagine that it's rocket science to make good micarta.
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It is not rocket science. All it takes is good materials, good tooling and good processes. The offshore material I've seen had bad materials and processes.

NEMA grade has nothing to do with quality or the country of manufacture.

Chuck
 
Alpha Knife Supply said:
It is not rocket science. All it takes is good materials, good tooling and good processes. The offshore material I've seen had bad materials and processes.

NEMA grade has nothing to do with quality or the country of manufacture.

Chuck
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Oh I'm familiar with the loose tolerances of Chicom machinery and the product they manufacture. I will say it's getting better though. If you put out a shit product no one will buy it. No matter how little you spent into making it you aren't going to make a profit. I think the Chinese have been coming to terms with this in the past 50yrs.

Trust me I'd much rather buy from knife making supply companies that assure the specific quality of the micarta. At 2-3 times the price I can't afford to do that if there's another option that works. We'll see if it works.

Hell, the stuff from that ZORO site might be USA made so we might be comparing apples to apples anyway. I'll try and figure it out. Either way I'll report back with my findings.
 
In my experience the most expensive materials I ever purchased were the bargains.
If one item is a lot cheaper than another there is usually a good reason.
Not saying that you shouldn't gamble on a bargain. Just be prepared to have tossed your money out the window.
Or worse yet, actually use substandard materials on a knife you are putting your name on.
 
Burl Source said:
In my experience the most expensive materials I ever purchased were the bargains.
If one item is a lot cheaper than another there is usually a good reason.
Not saying that you shouldn't gamble on a bargain. Just be prepared to have tossed your money out the window.
Or worse yet, actually use substandard materials on a knife you are putting your name on.
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For sure, I subscribe to "buy once, cry once." That being said I'll probably cut a piece and test it before using it for knife scales. Anyone have ideas for testing? I was thinking some impact tests and then some extreme heat/cold possibly followed by more impact tests.
 
creature7 said:
For sure, I subscribe to "buy once, cry once." That being said I'll probably cut a piece and test it before using it for knife scales. Anyone have ideas for testing? I was thinking some impact tests and then some extreme heat/cold possibly followed by more impact tests.
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Testing Micarta?
Make a knife with it and use it! That's the application so that's the test that counts.

I do have a question for you.
If no one will buy crap product, who is buying 90% of the stuff in this country that's imported from China?
 
Rhinoknives1 said:
Testing Micarta?

I do have a question for you.
If no one will buy crap product, who is buying 90% of the stuff in this country that's imported from China?
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It might be tough to make micarta fail while it's on a knife. The purpose of my question was to figure out some of the areas where flawed micarta would fail and then test it in a way which would stress it in that regard.

Well, not all the stuff from China is crap anymore. I have a few Harbor Freight machines that have worked great and have seen a ton of use. If they die, they die(Ivan Drago voice). I don't have a ton of money invested in them. I didn't have $1000 to dump into a metal cutting band saw so I got a portaband for a little under $100. Also, I was speaking more in terms of things that are meticulously scrutinized. Like handle material used by knife makers. I'm sure there aren't millions of people lining up to buy phenolic sheets. The people who buy it are likely going to use it for something specific and would be in a position to determine whether it is quality or not. They're probably also the type of people who would share their findings with other people in their field, like me, here.
 
Chinese micarta doesn't "fail". It shrinks, warps, forms gaps over time and looks like crap.

Yeah, I'm sure it's not rocket science, but you can be sure if there is a corner to cut and another dime to be made, they'll do it. Listen to me, I have worked in manufacturing for 20 years, I have experience with the Chinese and import materials, I know what I'm talking about here. I personally have had to rework thousands of dollars of fixtures because import material found its way in, and I have personally scrapped hundreds of pounds of imported "micarta" because it's no good.

There is absolutely nothing in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper; and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey.

The cost of raw materials is such a small part of the cost of a knife, there is no good reason for using anything less than the best available. I applaud folks like Chuck who can provide the good stuff to small knifemakers, because a lot of folks don't have a good way of sorting out the problem materials on their own.

Remember, Walmart already has shitty knives pretty well covered. We should all be focused on making the best, and the best materials available is an important part of that.
 
creature7 said:
Anyone have ideas for testing? I was thinking some impact tests and then some extreme heat/cold possibly followed by more impact tests.
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I think your testing ideas are good. I would also test for layer delamination.

Try all the tests with dry and wet material. We noticed the off shore micarta absorbed significant amounts of water. When compared with domestic micarta, the off shore was much lighter in weight with lots of small visible voids. The domestic material looked solid in comparison. Cut handle sized pieces and contour with your belt grinder. When you are finished grinding, use compressed air and blow off the piece. Then look for voids.

Also measure thickness runout.

The last test would be using it on a knife. Do every abusive test that you hope your collectors never do. ;)

Chuck
 
From my limited experience, I can tell Chuck is dead on about his prices, especially his larger sheet prices, being lower than what American manufacturers will quote you. As for Chinese stuff getting better, some of it is getting worse. At least that is what some American companies who used to manufacture in China are saying. The one that I know if is one of the emergency generator companies, Generac, IIRC. They were having the cores for their genets built in China. Early on, they only had to do QC checks on like 1 out of 5 pieces and they knew the rest would be okay. By the time they moved production of those parts back to the US, it was like 4 out of 5.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
Chinese micarta doesn't "fail". It shrinks, warps, forms gaps over time and looks like crap.

Yeah, I'm sure it's not rocket science, but you can be sure if there is a corner to cut and another dime to be made, they'll do it. Listen to me, I have worked in manufacturing for 20 years, I have experience with the Chinese and import materials, I know what I'm talking about here. I personally have had to rework thousands of dollars of fixtures because import material found its way in, and I have personally scrapped hundreds of pounds of imported "micarta" because it's no good.

There is absolutely nothing in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper; and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey.

The cost of raw materials is such a small part of the cost of a knife, there is no good reason for using anything less than the best available. I applaud folks like Chuck who can provide the good stuff to small knifemakers, because a lot of folks don't have a good way of sorting out the problem materials on their own.

Remember, Walmart already has shitty knives pretty well covered. We should all be focused on making the best, and the best materials available is an important part of that.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the perspective, that makes a lot of sense. Now if I can just get an evil minion to find me some of the good stuff. ;D
 
Alpha Knife Supply said:
I think your testing ideas are good. I would also test for layer delamination.

Try all the tests with dry and wet material. We noticed the off shore micarta absorbed significant amounts of water. When compared with domestic micarta, the off shore was much lighter in weight with lots of small visible voids. The domestic material looked solid in comparison. Cut handle sized pieces and contour with your belt grinder. When you are finished grinding, use compressed air and blow off the piece. Then look for voids.

Also measure thickness runout.

The last test would be using it on a knife. Do every abusive test that you hope your collectors never do. ;)

Chuck
Click to expand...

Thanks for the ideas, I'll make sure and take the calipers to the sheets I get. I'll also try and weigh a piece dry and then again wet to see how much water it takes on. I'll place an order with you soon so i can get some stuff that I know is good.
 
If you notice i said 90% of the stuff from China.
I own a HF bandsaw as well, it wasn't that critical of a piece of machinery for my one man band shop. I buy Lennox USA blades for it.

I don't have the experience that Chuck or Nathan do with the overseas micartas but I do know that of the things that will make poorly made Micarta degrade is exposer to sunlight and good old time.

One thing i would like to add incase no one has is that these phenolics release formaldehyde when you grind them and because of some health issues I became so sensitive to it that I can't use the stuff anymore. It gives me pounding headaches.
Wear a good respirator when you grind that stuff and any other of the materials we work with. Those paper masks are not a respirator.
 
I am reminded of someone I know who repaired expensive watches, with the brand he worked on you could always tell the fakes right away, they were the ones with the decent quality watch bands. Expense and location of manufacture might have some correlation but there is a lot of times that the more expensive item isn't better.
 
Well after some checking around and calling the website in the OP(Zoro) and they said that it was made in the US for Grainger. Just to be sure I contacted Grainger and they confirmed that it was made in the US. Like I stated before, we might be comparing apples to apples. Either way I'll still let you guys know how it turns out.
 
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