most large folders=tip down

[jlh2600]

Of course there are some large folders out there whose clips are oriented for tip up carry (or reversible at least)- but I notice that in general, when you get into the 4"+ blade range, most models are tip down only. Especially in Spydercos and Benchmades I notice this.

Is there some benefit to tip-down carry specific to large folders?

Thanks.

 

[Planterz]

A larger blade is heavier, and a detent might not be enough to keep it closed against gravity. That's the only reason I can think of. I think the Darrel Ralph/Camillus bigass knives (CUDA MAXX, etc) were oriented tip-down because of this, but I think they're available with reversable clips now (DR's anyway).

 

[cerulean]

With tip up folders, the knife has to be relatively small for your thumb to reach the opening stud, disk, or hole when drawing the knife from your pocket. If the knife is too large, you’re going to have to “scoot” your hand up the handle to reach the opening device with your thumb. (Unless you have an extremely long thumb. )

Tip down folders are drawn straight up and out of your pocket. Your thumb is always positioned near the pivot area and close to the device on the blade that opens it. With a tip down folder, the knife could be five feet long and you’d still be able to open it without repositioning the handle after drawing it. You’d need a roughly five foot long thumb if you wanted to draw and open a tip up folder of that length without climbing up the handle with your hand.

But, people still buy huge folders that are tip up... so who knows?

 

[Pahtoocara]

From my experiences with the XL 5" and the newer X2 6" CS Voyagers, I've always used a good wrist flick to open them. I actually removed the thumbstud from the 5" version. The blades on those knives are heavy enough to open without the thumbstuds.

 

[FullerH]

From my experiences with the XL 5" and the newer X2 6" CS Voyagers, I've always used a good wrist flick to open them. I actually removed the thumbstud from the 5" version. The blades on those knives are heavy enough to open without the thumbstuds.

If you can open a knife with a wrist flick only, you are walking out onto very thin ice in a legal sense. That knife can very easily be ruled a "gravity blade" in many jurisdictions, so I would be most careful about doing what you describe in public.

 

[STR]

I've noticed for the really large folders that tip down seems to just work better. On something like the Spyderco Military if you convert it to tip up the knife is so long in the handle that you have to reposition your hand once you get the knife out of your pocket because its just in the wrong place to use the knife. Tip down puts your hand in the right position so it works best.

On shorter folders tip up works better IMO but even then that isn't written in stone. On some knives like the Ka-Bar Dozier designed Thorn, tip down is important because the pocket clip plays a role in giving your fingers a place to rest so you can one hand open the blade. Without the clip mounted on the knife or if it were mounted and reversed the knife is very awkward to open.

STR

 

[Pahtoocara]

Many knives can be opened, using only a wrist flick. Some I have been able to do this with: Spyderco Police, Spyderco Delica and Delica II, Benchmade AFCK, Gerber EZ-out, various Cold Steel folders, and others.

We were having this discussion about the vagueness of knife laws in many states with regards to gravity knives:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=394432

 

[SIFU1A]

other than slip joints i have found most any folder can be inertia opened unless the pivot is pretty tight.

being able to do this and taking the studs off are 2 diff things imho, the studs being removed is gonna indicate to some that its a gravity knife, how else do ya open the thing? i too would be careful doing this. i know the definition of a gravity knife under the TX penal code is awfully vague.......

as far as tip up/down i very much prefer tip up, most larger knives (ie +4.5") are tip down though, doent make me happy though. thankfully a lot of 4" or so folders have the pocket clip oriented correctly (ie all emersons, spyderco ATR, BM axis AFCK's, MT LCC, etc). why do i prefer tip up? its just how i started training to draw a knife and its what i'm used to now, so it works better for me, FWIW the only folders i have had probs with opening in the pocket are tip down (ie spyderco gunting and khalsa) so i dont think thats a concern.

 

[rnhood]

I also prefer tip-up on large folders. For one, I find drawing the knife is not made any more difficult due to it's length. I would rather slide the hand up a little after drawing (utterly easy to do this) on tip-up carry rather than pivoting the knife around the thumb and index finger to position it correctly for opening on tip-down carry. Just a matter of preference.

In addition, with tip-down carry the hand generally doesn't slide into the pocket as easy (ie: getting change from your pocket) due to the tang being usally wide and having more abrupt edges/angles. With tip-up carry the hand slides past the butt or heel much easier as this area is usually smooth and ergo-curved. A Spyderco that is tip-down makes life even more difficult for right-hand pocket carriers as the raised thumhole area protrudes yet even further into the main pathway of the pocket.

Why all knives don't offer a multi-mount clip I don't know. I have been refraining from buying tip-down carry knives due to their user unfriendliness. Again, this in all in my opinion only.

 

[Gryffin]

With tip up folders, the knife has to be relatively small for your thumb to reach the opening stud, disk, or hole when drawing the knife from your pocket. If the knife is too large, you’re going to have to “scoot” your hand up the handle to reach the opening device with your thumb. (Unless you have an extremely long thumb. )

Ya know, that's the first I've heard of that theory, and it makes a lot of sense. Thanks!! :thumbup:

 

[Pahtoocara]

the studs being removed is gonna indicate to some that its a gravity knife

Good point. However, the thumb-stud kept getting caught on the edge of my pocket during draws, so I removed it. I applied some skateboard grip tape where the thumb-stud used to be.

Carrying large folders (5"+ blades) appears worse than being able to wrist flick you knife open anyways. Tell the authorities you cut string, open cardboard boxes, and open mail with your Cuda MAXX Stilletto or your CS Vaquero Grande. :jerkit:

Where I live, Ohio, just about everything can be a weapon:

ORC 2923.11. Definitions
(A) "Deadly weapon" means any instrument, device, or thing capable of inflicting death, and designed or specially adapted for use as a weapon, or possessed, carried, or used as a weapon.

 

[ginshun]

If you can open a knife with a wrist flick only, you are walking out onto very thin ice in a legal sense. That knife can very easily be ruled a "gravity blade" in many jurisdictions, so I would be most careful about doing what you describe in public.

I can open 90% of the knives I own like that. Its possible with pretty much any knife that has a 3" or longer blade and nothing actually locking it closed.

 

[theocguy85]

I carry (at the moment) a Cold Steel AK-47 knife. (Its clip is for tip-up carry, BTW.) It stays closed, and even if you open it 3/4 of an inch, it still pulls the blade closed. That said, I can still flick it open. If you can hold a knife upside down and shake it a little, and the blade stays closed, it is NOT a gravity knife.

 

[powernoodle]

So how do you kids deploy tip-down folders? After removing the knife, you have to flip it 180 degrees before opening it, right? This seems like wasted motion.

cheers

 

[JackFuller]

In regards to the gravity knife discussion, assuming that most states have the same definition of "gravity knife" as defined by the Socialist Republic of New York, the knife is either opened by gravitational force or by the application of centrifugal force and [automatically] locked into place (not totally exact wording, for that look to NYS Penal Law Section 265.1). This definition is flawed, and while it might not be worth the attorney fees to argue this in court, there is no such thing as centrifugal, or center fearing force. The "force" that they are referring to is not actually a force, but, rather, the inertia of the blade.

 

[mp510]

My 3" carries tip down. So does my 2.5". I personally like tip down. I can get a faster draw off of it for some reason, and that's what I choose to work with.

 

[DRider]

I carry all my folders tip down. I reach into the pocket and pull it out with thumb and forefinger. So its already in the proper position for a quick thumb flick, or forefinger start and wrist flip. If I carried tip up, I could do an instant wrist flick downwards and have it open in an edge foreward icepick grip... but I don't cut my apples that way.

; )

 

[Pahtoocara]

So how do you kids deploy tip-down folders? After removing the knife, you have to flip it 180 degrees before opening it, right?

You can remove it and then flip the handle down in the "New York Drop" fashion (aka "Handle Drop"). I can regulary draw and cut with this method of opening in 0.5-0.6 seconds (measured with shooting timer). This is with my hand on the knife prior to timer "beep", draw, and cut. Not much wasted motion.

I'm not advocating a method of deployment over another, merely stating a fact. I use and train with different methods.

 

[cerulean]

So how do you kids deploy tip-down folders? After removing the knife, you have to flip it 180 degrees before opening it, right? This seems like wasted motion.

cheers

Tip-up and tip-down folders are usually drawn differently. Basically, you grab tip-up knives from the front and tip-down ones from behind.

With a tip-up folder, you hold the knife with an overhand grab, sliding your thumb deep into your pocket, and then rotate the pivot end of the handle up as you draw it.

To draw a tip-down knife, you use an under-hand grab (kind of like you’re extending your arm to shake hands with someone). Your thumb goes right behind the pivot and you pull the knife straight up and out of your pocket.

In the first pic below, I’m drawing a tip-down folder (Spyderco Military). It shows the position your hand is in to start a tip-down draw. Usually, my index and middle fingers would be higher up on the handle, but I dropped them down a bit in the pic so you could see where my thumb is.

The second pic (sorry… these are awful cell phone pics that I took myself ) shows a tip-up draw with a large Sebenza. I’m about halfway through the draw. You can’t see my thumb, but it’s fully extended down the length of the handle so I can reach the thumbstud without scooting up too much.

These pics are just trying to illustrate where your hand goes for normal draws. There are an almost limitless number of interesting ways to draw and open a folder (like the "drop" that Pahtoocara mentioned). Some of these methods seem to be strictly confidential too… remember the “Brownie-Pop”? lol

 

[jlh2600]

Yeah, that makes sense. Thanks cerulean. Guess you can be just about as quick either way, just a matter of getting used to it.


Hey, is this guy right? He writes "The clip can be ditched and even better there is 4 ways to attached it to suit you." I thought Manix was only tip down- is there a way to attach the clip to the lanyard hole or something? http://outdoors-magazine.com/s_article.php?id_article=258