Motorcycle or Scooter?

[Noctis3880]

Hi all. I've been scraping by without reliable transportation for a while now, but I figure now might be a good time to get one as I constantly lose an hour of my life every day commuting to campus on the other side of the island(mostly). We're also moving to a new place and I'm not 100% sure there's anything to lock the bike to, though I should be able to park it in front of my mother's car.

I've got my eye on these two:
Yamaha Zuma 50F
Honda NC700X

I have 3(maybe 4?) points of interest in considering my purchase:

1) Safety
I've been hearing about size of the wheel and overall weight being a factor in what kind of reaction you might get when hitting a pothole, but I would say from the pictures the size of the wheels are about the same, with the Honda looking to be a bit top heavy. And while it sounds silly, an actual motorcycle justifies heavier-duty protective gear(namely the layers), whereas you'd just look stupid wearing that on a scooter. But I hear that gear plays a large role other than driver stupidity. For the record, I have no "need for speed". No racing for me:thumbdn:.

My problem with cars is that I'm not spatially aware of its large bulk and misjudge distances, which caused me to scrape the rear against a wall on one occasion while making a turn in a parking lot. I have also mostly tried to avoid parallel parking for this reason.

Also wondering if it's true(at least with these two models) that the braking on a motorcycle is better than what you get on a scooter.

2) Security
My Google-fu hasn't given me much info on this matter. I know scooter thefts are almost pandemic on the island and on the UH campus(not there yet, but I will be in a few years). I do hear that most thieves can render most security(alarms and chains not secured to a solid object) useless by simply tossing the entire scooter into a large truck(probably soundproofed against alarms). I would assume a motorcycle makes this more difficult, being more than twice the weight. I also see scooters locked up against poles and bike frames, while a motorcycle typically sits proudly in a parking stall all by its lonesome, or also sits next to parked scooters when it's convenient(and available).

I'm also not sure if motorcycles as a class have more advanced security systems, being more expensive. Mostly thinking about GPS locators and louder alarms(or ability to be customized with fog-horn type alarms).

3) Cost
The cost difference is obvious, with the Honda being almost triple the price. The protective gear would probably add on a healthy amount(full body VS just the helmet for the scooter). Add on insurance, license, registration, and gas costs(62 MPG VS 132 MPG).

But I figure if safety is the same, and security is considerably better, then it would be worth the added costs. After all, there wouldn't be much point to having something that's 1/4th the cost if it gets stolen 4 times as much in the same time period.

And while the cost of a motorcycle might go as high as that of a cheap car, I figure it's more worth it anyway, due to my hamhandedness with a car.



Last point is looks. Don't really give a crap if the scooter looks bad so long as it's not pink and has My Little Pony decals all over it:thumbup:, with again the exception of being caught wearing full body protection on the thing like I'm going to race with it. For motorcycles I prefer something with a more "modern" and "sporty" look that comes with the top heavy chassis, even though it looks like it wouldn't handle potholes as well as a Harley. Though I may give up looks if the specs/cost benefit is considerable.

Intended use is just for short commutes. I stayed away from highways/freeways even when driving a car. Mostly because my sense of direction was so bad(even with a GPS voice device) that I ended up at the airport after making a wrong turn at the gas station. Home parking is an open lot. Not a main street, but still high traffic because of the 24-hour grocer just across the street(same place where I work). Thing is, a lot of punks frequent the area(and shoplift from the store). Not hardcore gang or professional thieves, but generally kids with no life and lots of free time on their hands.

I'm also unsure about how much space "21-liters" is. I typically carry a Saddleback Leather Large Briefcase with a Macbook and my texts inside. The scooter can have a rack installed IIRC, but I don't believe the Honda has any such features.


Also interested in suggestions for alternative models, as well as(legal) super loud alarm systems.

 

[C_Becker]

Why just a helmet for the scooter ? Falling from a scooter at 30mph hurts the same as falling from a motorcycle at 30mph, doesn't it ?
And I'd rather look silly than have pain for weeks from road rash. Been there done that, don't want to again.
At least buy a quality Goretex motorcycle jacket, a kevlar reinforced jeans and some good gloves and boots.
Don't be the guy on his GSXR1000 wearing a wife-beater and flip flops. Please, there are enough of them even here in Germany.
And please take any rider courses that are offered, it might save your behind one day.

And you are comparing a 700cc bike with a 50cc scooter, apples and oranges
For commuting, I'd go with a 125cc or 250cc scooter. Best of both worlds IMHO - cheap tires, better mpg, no chain to take care of, storage space under the seat.

BTW that motorcyle sitting"proudly" alone in a parking lot - might not be there when you get back. They get stolen frequently, as least here. Just need three strong guys and a transporter. Or get messed with by "kids with no life and too much time on their hands". Scooters draw less attentions than a fancy new motorcycle.


If you are getting a bike:
Assuming its your first bike, I'd suggest starting with something smaller, because even a 700cc is wicked fast. Compare the power to weight ration to your car
I'd recommend getting a Kawasaki Ninja 250 or a Suzuki DRZ400SM, both are proven beginner and commuter bikes, and since you are avoiding freeways, make more than enough power to get ya in trouble. Especially the DRZ400SM makes you do stupid sh... erm stuff, its a little hooligan bike. Love mine

And you can install a topcase (and even more advanced luggage systems) on almost any motorcycle. It will cost ya though
I haven't seen a bike that comes with an alarm system, but you can install one later. Get a cover for your bike/scooter, makes it a little less likely to get stolen/messed with.

Sources: Me, 7 years and ~65.500km riding experience in the land of the Autobahn

 

[Haze]

I ride a real motorbike and a scooter here in Taiwan. A scooter is the easiest thing ever for "scooting" about town or shorter trips. They can be a bit thirsty if you spend anytime at high revs though as they obviously have no gears. I would also not bother with a scooter that is less than a 125cc unless a 50cc is really the only option for you. I got a Yamaha GTR 125cc about 2 years ago and that was only just over US$2000 new. I have treated that thing like I stole it from a ginger stepchild that owed me money and I have had very few problems. Infact the only problem was the clutch fan breaking up a high revs throwing broken plastic about. That was a little exciting of course but was not expensive to fix or particularly damaging to the scooter as a whole.

All that said, I do prefer the real motorbike in just about every way but, there is no getting away from the ease of use, convenience and low cost of the scooter. Just make sure you have a full face helmet and a spare jacket so no one knows it's you riding it. :thumbup:

 

[Limpy88]

I would go with the zuma 125 instead of the 50. But honda makes a scooter with large wheels. The bigger the wheel the more stable it is, scooter wise.

I don't think the honda nc 700 are that great of a buy. The Kaw versys is a much better option in that class of motorcycle. Cheaper and much better second market for parts.

You can always look at a dual sport 250.
Close to 80mpg, still fast enough to handle highways jaunts, and quick and nimble In the streets.
They are the in between scooter and 500-800 cc bikes.

Never not wear gloves when on anything with out a seat belt. In a crash it is insticntive to put your hads down to sabe you. Even at 10mph road rash on the things you use most to interact with the world really sucks. I have experienced it.

 

[NetshadeX]

I ride this to work everyday. (Not my pic)

Don't know if these are available where you live but it's an amazing scooter. It's a 50cc Kymco Super 8. It has 14" wheels which are very comfortable in size. It's a larger scooter and has very good handling.

Most important quality is that it's built like a tank. I slid across the tarmac once AND I've ran it into the backend of a car. It' just didn't give damn, didn't require any work except some touch ups on the paintjob.

I highly recommend it.

 

[Noctis3880]

Why just a helmet for the scooter ? Falling from a scooter at 30mph hurts the same as falling from a motorcycle at 30mph, doesn't it ?

Probably worse on the bike, as the bike would crush you under with nearly 500lbs, whereas the scooter would probably throw you clean off.

And I'd rather look silly than have pain for weeks from road rash. Been there done that, don't want to again.
At least buy a quality Goretex motorcycle jacket, a kevlar reinforced jeans and some good gloves and boots.
Don't be the guy on his GSXR1000 wearing a wife-beater and flip flops. Please, there are enough of them even here in Germany.
And please take any rider courses that are offered, it might save your behind one day.

Not really flip-flops(I only wear them for short walks to the mailbox:thumbup, but I honestly wouldn't dress much different than I normally do.

And you are comparing a 700cc bike with a 50cc scooter, apples and oranges
For commuting, I'd go with a 125cc or 250cc scooter. Best of both worlds IMHO - cheap tires, better mpg, no chain to take care of, storage space under the seat.

The Honda has storage under the seat and the wheel size doesn't seem much different compared to low rider bikes. MPG is a given, but I figure the MPG on any bike is already twice that of a car.

BTW that motorcyle sitting"proudly" alone in a parking lot - might not be there when you get back. They get stolen frequently, as least here. Just need three strong guys and a transporter. Or get messed with by "kids with no life and too much time on their hands". Scooters draw less attentions than a fancy new motorcycle.

Wouldn't it depend heavily on the weight? As I said, not too much in the way of professional thieves here. A scooter takes 2 guys, the Honda(472 lbs) could take as much as 4. As far as attention, would it look that flashy under a tarp? Both would need it, given the rainy weather.

Also need to ask again:
Do bikes have better available alarms/locks than scooters?

If you are getting a bike:
Assuming its your first bike, I'd suggest starting with something smaller, because even a 700cc is wicked fast. Compare the power to weight ration to your car
I'd recommend getting a Kawasaki Ninja 250 or a Suzuki DRZ400SM, both are proven beginner and commuter bikes, and since you are avoiding freeways, make more than enough power to get ya in trouble. Especially the DRZ400SM makes you do stupid sh... erm stuff, its a little hooligan bike. Love mine

To be honest, I figure any bike would go faster than I need it to. I do like the Honda model I linked to because:
A) Automatic transmission. Maybe not a huge deal I can't compensate for, but I like the convenience.
B) Heavy. Probably not a good thing if you topple, as that weight will end up on you. But I figure it would handle bumps and potholes better and would be more work to steal.

Though I suppose the speed may come in handy. I try to avoid freeways, but there may be a rare occasion where I might have to(say a job interview out of town).

 

[Noctis3880]

I ride this to work everyday. (Not my pic)

Don't know if these are available where you live but it's an amazing scooter. It's a 50cc Kymco Super 8. It has 14" wheels which are very comfortable in size. It's a larger scooter and has very good handling.

Most important quality is that it's built like a tank. I slid across the tarmac once AND I've ran it into the backend of a car. It' just didn't give damn, didn't require any work except some touch ups on the paintjob.

I highly recommend it.

How about security? As I said, overnight parking is in a somewhat sketchy neighborhood in an open lot. Always interested in alarms that could break someone's eardrums:thumbup:, but not TOO sensitive as I might get sued if it goes off because someone stepped too close to it.

These modern scooters have a really sporty look to it, and I suspect I'd look a lot better in full layers sitting on top of that Kymco:thumbup:. The PROs of a scooter are overwhelming, but I still have a lot of doubts about keeping it from being stolen over the long-term.

 

[22-rimfire]

Theft potential.... buy insurance.

I will give you my take as a non-motorcycle person. I wanted a motorcycle or scooter too for a while. I didn't want anything really big and I didn't want anything really fast as I would be a beginner. You will wreck or have a spill or two on either.... I view it as a given. So, are you willing to accept that risk? Car is much safer....

I almost bought a scooter and my way of reviewing them was top speed as I knew I would want it to be able to do highway speeds if I needed it to even if I was a beginner.

Hauling capacity? What would you normally haul with the "bike"? Trips to the grocery store would be a pain as far as I'm concerned.

Weather? You don't want to ride in the rain especially if you are a beginner. The accident potential triples.

I came to the conclusion that I still want a higher powered scooter, but I wouldn't ride it much. It might be different in HI where the distances are limited. I would rather find a less expensive small car or pickup and have the safety and convenience.

 

[Bob W]

Visit your insurance agent and get a quote as a single male on a 700cc sportbike...
Then compare it to a 250cc sportbike, a nice scooter, and a 250-500cc cruiser-style motorcycle.

Riding is great fun, challenging, and rewarding. But it isn't for everyone and it's very different than driving a car. Riding a motorcycle can never be as safe as a car, for example, and some people aren't comfortable with that. Additionally there are the factors of exposure to the weather, physical comfort, security, road hazards... So how to find out if motorcycling might be for you before spending thousands on a bike, insurance, and gear? Read the book Proficient Motorcycling by David Hough and take a riding class.

Regarding your particular bike choices, I don't have experience with scooters and sportbikes, but my initial impression is that Honda is very expensive and heavy. Not horribly expensive or heavy, but seemingly so for scooting around town. $7500 and 470lbs? Seems like a bit much. For comparison, the Ninja 300 weighs 380lbs and costs only $5000. I'd love to test ride one though, to check out that automatic transmission.

I rode a scooter once, belonged to my retired aunt. My own motorcycle is an 800cc cruiser with a long rake and 65" wheel base (that's longer than many monster-size Harleys). Since the cruiser is large, long, and heavy you might expect that riding a scooter would be comparatively easy. Not so much. The tiny wheels, no rake, high center of gravity, and step-through design... I hated it. :grumpy:

That being said, one of the most hard-core "bikers" around here for years was a kid who worked at the grocery and rode a Suzuki Burgman. For years he rode that thing to and from work every single day - year-round, rain, blizzards, nightfall... I think he had no other vehicle.

I get the impression you live in an urban / suburban area. If I lived in a city, I probably wouldn't own a bike: the risk / reward ratio would be too unfavorable. I hate riding in traffic, so there's no enjoyment. Statistically I don't know if facts support urban riding being more dangerous than rural riding, but it doesn't feel safe.

Do bikes have better available alarms/locks than scooters?

They generally don't come equipped with anything stock. Any alarm or lock system you can put on a large motorcycle, you can put on a scooter too.

Probably worse on the bike, as the bike would crush you under with nearly 500lbs, whereas the scooter would probably throw you clean off.

One of the most common accident types is collisions with left-turning cars. Car pulls out in front of motorcycle, motorcycle hits car, rider goes flying through air, rider lands on head / face / hands... No difference if you're on a motorcycle or scooter.

Maybe riding a scooter around the neighborhood wouldn't warrant full buffalo hide leathers, but I don't even move the bike in the driveway without a full-face helmet, leather gloves, and sturdy long shirt and pants. I'm very sensitive to pain...

 

[sideways]

Neither. Get a car.

OK so to elaborate. You are basically saying you do not trust yourself to drive a car safely. If that is the case you shouldn't be driving a motorcycle. Not EVER. Study after study have shown that motorcycles are way more dangerous than cars. Insurance costs more for a bike for a reason. I remember seeing somewhere that on average every motorcyclist gets into an accident that requires hospital care within the first year of riding.

Do you have a medical condition that makes you unable to drive? If so you don't belong on the road. There is no shame in that, but it will not be safer for you or others on the road because you are on a bike. If it is just nerves you can fix that with practice. I failed my driving test twice because of nerves. Third one is a charm though and I have never been in an accident despite driving in all kinds of tricky conditions.

Cars are safer, more practical, and usually more economical. If you don't like big cars you can get a small car.

 

[Noctis3880]

Neither. Get a car.

OK so to elaborate. You are basically saying you do not trust yourself to drive a car safely. If that is the case you shouldn't be driving a motorcycle. Not EVER. Study after study have shown that motorcycles are way more dangerous than cars. Insurance costs more for a bike for a reason. I remember seeing somewhere that on average every motorcyclist gets into an accident that requires hospital care within the first year of riding.

Do you have a medical condition that makes you unable to drive? If so you don't belong on the road. There is no shame in that, but it will not be safer for you or others on the road because you are on a bike. If it is just nerves you can fix that with practice. I failed my driving test twice because of nerves. Third one is a charm though and I have never been in an accident despite driving in all kinds of tricky conditions.

Cars are safer, more practical, and usually more economical. If you don't like big cars you can get a small car.

Small car might work, but I don't have an actual parking space for it, and motorcycles and scooters are known for parking in spots where cars can't:thumbup:. Street parking is not something I want to keep going with for 4+ years, especially given that I would have to walk several blocks to actually get to my car, which would defeat the purpose of having a car in the first place.

As far as actually driving, I'm less concerned about smashing into another car at high speeds than I am about f***ing up my car, or someone else's because of my crappy spacial awareness. Though to be fair, my first "car" was an old truck(not a pickup).

 

[Noctis3880]

Theft potential.... buy insurance.

Wouldn't they jack the rates up if your scooter/bike gets stolen? I do hear that having premium security features would lower the rates, but it's not much consolation to me if they just threw my scooter into a truck and drove off. Irony dictates that it would happen on finals week:thumbup:.

I will give you my take as a non-motorcycle person. I wanted a motorcycle or scooter too for a while. I didn't want anything really big and I didn't want anything really fast as I would be a beginner. You will wreck or have a spill or two on either.... I view it as a given. So, are you willing to accept that risk? Car is much safer....

Safer yes, convenient no.

I almost bought a scooter and my way of reviewing them was top speed as I knew I would want it to be able to do highway speeds if I needed it to even if I was a beginner.

Speed is just an added bonus for me. There's the occasional prick who might want to go 55 in a 40 mph zone, and the dickhead behind you can't seem to figure out that your damned scooter doesn't go any faster.

Hauling capacity? What would you normally haul with the "bike"? Trips to the grocery store would be a pain as far as I'm concerned.

How convenient that I have 2 large grocers just 20 seconds walk from my house just across the street!

Anything big needs to be moved and I can hijack my mom's Scion or hire some movers. Given that dear old mum did drop a bed mattress on the freeway once, I would stick with the latter:thumbup:.

Weather? You don't want to ride in the rain especially if you are a beginner. The accident potential triples.

Very true, but heavy rains are generally rare. I could pay the $2.00 bus ride if I feel it's bad enough.

I came to the conclusion that I still want a higher powered scooter, but I wouldn't ride it much. It might be different in HI where the distances are limited. I would rather find a less expensive small car or pickup and have the safety and convenience.

The convenience issue for me is parking spots and actually managing to park your car without destroying someone else's.

 

[Bob W]

...because of my crappy spacial awareness.

You might not be a good candidate for motorcycling, at least not as a daily driver in urban traffic.

Still, if you have the desire to ride and are willing to accept the additional risk, continue your investigations. Get that book I recommended. Sign up for a riding class. And continue your cost investigations into bikes, insurance, and gear. And visit a few motorcycle dealers to get a 'feel' for different styles, sizes, and models of bikes.

The riding class will tell you much, much more than anyone on an internet forum can. The prices are normally reasonable, and may qualify you for insurance discount if you do buy a bike. In some states you get the license at the end of the class too. You don't even need to buy a bunch of gear just to take the class.

http://www.msf-usa.org/

In addition to riding tips and theories, this book contains frank discussions on the risks and hazards of riding, including real-world consequences.

 

[Bob W]

Maybe a little inspiration?

These are my local riding conditions:

 

[sideways]

Small car might work, but I don't have an actual parking space for it, and motorcycles and scooters are known for parking in spots where cars can't:thumbup:. Street parking is not something I want to keep going with for 4+ years, especially given that I would have to walk several blocks to actually get to my car, which would defeat the purpose of having a car in the first place.

As far as actually driving[/B], I'm less concerned about smashing into another car at high speeds than I am about f***ing up my car, or someone else's because of my crappy spacial awareness. Though to be fair, my first "car" was an old truck(not a pickup).

Is this a real medical condition or a matter of having the wrong car and not being accustomed to it?

*snip*
Speed is just an added bonus for me. There's the occasional prick who might want to go 55 in a 40 mph zone, and the dickhead behind you can't seem to figure out that your damned scooter doesn't go any faster.

How convenient that I have 2 large grocers just 20 seconds walk from my house just across the street!

Anything big needs to be moved and I can hijack my mom's Scion or hire some movers. Given that dear old mum did drop a bed mattress on the freeway once, I would stick with the latter:thumbup:.

Very true, but heavy rains are generally rare. I could pay the $2.00 bus ride if I feel it's bad enough.

The convenience issue for me is parking spots and actually managing to park your car without destroying someone else's.

A few thoughts.
- There are drunk fools and thrill seekers out there who will do 100 mph in a 40 mph zone.
- If you only need it for commuting to campus and the bus costs 2 bucks... it might be cheaper and easier to take the bus. Do the math.
- There is a vehicle available to you for moving things and and for casual stuff where you need to go places off the beaten path.
- Managing to park without destroying stuff is a matter of practice baring some medical condition.

 

[Noctis3880]

Visit your insurance agent and get a quote as a single male on a 700cc sportbike...
Then compare it to a 250cc sportbike, a nice scooter, and a 250-500cc cruiser-style motorcycle.

Good advice. I might qualify for a discount given that I'm supposedly at the age when men grow up(25+), at least mentally.

Riding is great fun, challenging, and rewarding. But it isn't for everyone and it's very different than driving a car. Riding a motorcycle can never be as safe as a car, for example, and some people aren't comfortable with that. Additionally there are the factors of exposure to the weather, physical comfort, security, road hazards... So how to find out if motorcycling might be for you before spending thousands on a bike, insurance, and gear? Read the book Proficient Motorcycling by David Hough and take a riding class.

I suppose this is the same concept, bike or scooter?

Funnily enough, the thought of having my head run over bothers me a bit less than scuffing someone else's car when I'm trying to parallel park. Though actually surviving the experience sounds like the greater challenge, what with the medical bills and all.

Regarding your particular bike choices, I don't have experience with scooters and sportbikes, but my initial impression is that Honda is very expensive and heavy. Not horribly expensive or heavy, but seemingly so for scooting around town. $7500 and 470lbs? Seems like a bit much. For comparison, the Ninja 300 weighs 380lbs and costs only $5000. I'd love to test ride one though, to check out that automatic transmission.

Yeah, pretty pricey and heavy. I do like the ninja, but it doesn't seem to have the internal cargo storage. Maybe not a deal breaker, but it's nice to have, particularly if you don't want to lug your helmet around with you.

The extra weight is a double-edged sword. If you tilt, your leg is going to be stuck between the gravel and your 470 lbs bike until it stops. But if some kids want to make a quick snatch and grab, they're going to need about 4-5 guys to lift it into a truck, and none of them had better drop it when the alarm shrieks into their eardrums the entire time.

I rode a scooter once, belonged to my retired aunt. My own motorcycle is an 800cc cruiser with a long rake and 65" wheel base (that's longer than many monster-size Harleys). Since the cruiser is large, long, and heavy you might expect that riding a scooter would be comparatively easy. Not so much. The tiny wheels, no rake, high center of gravity, and step-through design... I hated it. :grumpy:

I'd imagine it would take some time to get used to given that you're not used to riding a bicycle in a sitting position. But I'd still go for one in a heartbeat if I wasn't absolutely convinced that 2 guys could just pick one up, toss it in their truck, and be "gone in 60 seconds"(probably half that).

I get the impression you live in an urban / suburban area. If I lived in a city, I probably wouldn't own a bike: the risk / reward ratio would be too unfavorable. I hate riding in traffic, so there's no enjoyment. Statistically I don't know if facts support urban riding being more dangerous than rural riding, but it doesn't feel safe.

It's a weird sort of "city", but only in Downtown/Chinatown and Waikiki(also the only two places where you can't ride a bicycle on the sidewalk). There are less traveled roads past the busy areas as well.

My personal impression is that there's less crazy driving and road rage than in the mainland. And you really have to give the residents credit when you see the same people(including old asian women with flu masks and dark dark sunglasses) riding a bicycle on the road every day at really slow speeds. I figure it's not as bad as one might think if nobody ran them over yet:thumbup:.

They generally don't come equipped with anything stock. Any alarm or lock system you can put on a large motorcycle, you can put on a scooter too.

I see. I just would've expected the larger chassis of the motorcycle might allow you to mount something with *in a Tim the Tool Man Taylor voice* "more power!" Because frankly, 120 dB doesn't sound loud enough:devilish:.

One of the most common accident types is collisions with left-turning cars. Car pulls out in front of motorcycle, motorcycle hits car, rider goes flying through air, rider lands on head / face / hands... No difference if you're on a motorcycle or scooter.

I think there's a big difference if you manage to drag your vehicle with you so it comes along for the ride(and maybe on top of you). Though I'd imagine that while the damage is likely higher on a bike, it's probably far more likely on a scooter that weights almost as much as you do as opposed to the brick on wheels that's more than twice your weight.

Maybe riding a scooter around the neighborhood wouldn't warrant full buffalo hide leathers, but I don't even move the bike in the driveway without a full-face helmet, leather gloves, and sturdy long shirt and pants. I'm very sensitive to pain...

Probably not leathers in Hawaii(dat sun). I'd figure there would be some good modernized space-age fabric that would boast breathability, waterproof, and high abrasion resistance.

 

[Noctis3880]

Is this a real medical condition or a matter of having the wrong car and not being accustomed to it?

Not sure how I could find out if it's a medical condition. I have issues judging distances between objects and the back/sides of my car, but I don't have a problem riding a bicycle(can't do any fancy tricks on one). My only other clue is that I couldn't jump-rope for crap when I was young, and I still can't do it now. So maybe a hand-eye coordination problem? Could also be a balance issue, as I can't skateboard either. But like I said, no issues with riding a bicycle.

A few thoughts.
- There are drunk fools and thrill seekers out there who will do 100 mph in a 40 mph zone.

This is why I prefer not to drive at night. That and it's a complete visibility clusterf*** when it's raining at night. I couldn't make out the lanes at all and almost drove down the wrong direction on a one-way street.

- If you only need it for commuting to campus and the bus costs 2 bucks... it might be cheaper and easier to take the bus. Do the math.

It's considerably cheaper with a semester student pass. The problem like I said is that it takes roughly an hour(including waiting) to go in either direction. It takes maybe 20 minutes with a car.

- Managing to park without destroying stuff is a matter of practice baring some medical condition.

Like I said, could just be the car. But I don't have available parking either way.

 

[sideways]

@ Bob W, Nice open roads you got there. :thumbup:

@Noctiss. Well if it is not a medical condition it is false economy. Learning to drive without hitting things will be considerably easier than putting up with the drawbacks of a motorcycle... Not to mention safer if you are still getting the hang of navigating traffic. It is better for your physical and probably financial health (look up what a weeks stay in hospital costs these days) to let the car body take the hit instead of your body taking the hit.

With the bike you will have to factor safety gear into your travel times. You have to put that stuff on and take it off every time throw a leg over the bike. Then you have to carry it with you all day since I don't think you'll be wearing it in Hawaii heat. Oh yeah sunburn and no A/C will be a thing.

 

[22-rimfire]

Small car might work, but I don't have an actual parking space for it, and motorcycles and scooters are known for parking in spots where cars can't Street parking is not something I want to keep going with for 4+ years, especially given that I would have to walk several blocks to actually get to my car, which would defeat the purpose of having a car in the first place.

As far as actually driving, I'm less concerned about smashing into another car at high speeds than I am about f***ing up my car, or someone else's because of my crappy spacial awareness. Though to be fair, my first "car" was an old truck(not a pickup).

As far as having to walk a few blocks... leave earlier, or get used to it. Couple of blocks is not a big deal. You could probably purchase a parking space (monthly). People do it all the time. That is part of the reason that I always have avoided working "downtown". Unless they gave me a parking space, which was a distinct possibility for my level, I would rather work outside of the "city".

The spacial awareness item concerns me. Hearing problem? Eye sight? You will have the same problem with a bike with the main difference being in terms of accidents is that for the most part YOU get hurt and the car occupants do not unless they hit something trying to avoid you or as a result of the collision.

The shortness of the frame between a bike and a scooter is something to consider. That is one of the reasons that big bikes are more comfortable.

 

[Noctis3880]

@Noctiss. Well if it is not a medical condition it is false economy. Learning to drive without hitting things will be considerably easier than putting up with the drawbacks of a motorcycle... Not to mention safer if you are still getting the hang of navigating traffic. It is better for your physical and probably financial health (look up what a weeks stay in hospital costs these days) to let the car body take the hit instead of your body taking the hit.

I would absolutely agree, except that still doesn't give me a parking space. Again, somewhat sketchy neighborhood for about 2-3 blocks. It's high traffic in the day, but at night(when I need that car parked somewhere that's not in the middle of a river), it's an issue. My workplace is just across the street, but I suspect management would frown upon me using the store lot as my own personal garage.

With the bike you will have to factor safety gear into your travel times. You have to put that stuff on and take it off every time throw a leg over the bike. Then you have to carry it with you all day since I don't think you'll be wearing it in Hawaii heat. Oh yeah sunburn and no A/C will be a thing.

Not sure my skin can be burned given that I'm Chinese and people are starting to think I'm Filipino because my skin is so brown. No A/C shouldn't be a problem, given all the free wind. Also pretty sure anything with a zipper would work just fine:thumbup:. At least it does for my raincoat.