"mouche" on a french knife

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terrinecold

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Oct 3, 2016
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Hello,
on a traditional french folding knife (like a laguiole but many others) the blade side extrimity of the spring in a slipjoint or of the lockbar on a lockback have a forged and decorated part which in french is called a "mouche" (it means fly but is the knifemaking technical term in french regardless of what it is made to look like)
Mouches-personnalis%C3%A9es-couteaux-Laguiole1.jpg
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I am wondering what is the english technical term for this part of the knife.
 
terrinecold said:
I am wondering what is the english technical term for this part of the knife.
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I don't know the answer. Do you know of any knives with a "mouche" aside from French knives? If it is only on French knives, there's not much need for an English technical term for it. "Fly" or "mouche" would probably be fine... though you'd probably need to explain what you are referring to.
 
supratentorial said:
I don't know the answer. Do you know of any knives with a "mouche" aside from French knives? If it is only on French knives, there's not much need for an English technical term for it. "Fly" or "mouche" would probably be fine... though you'd probably need to explain what you are referring to.
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I don't know the traditional knives from other country.


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VashHash said:
I'd say it's the back spring or lockbar.
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I am talking about the sculpted end of the spring or lockbar. Which is traditionally forged on the spring or lockbar (in lower quality knives it is welded). It needs to be forged if you want it to be one piece with the spring (or lockbar) as it is flattened sideways and wider that the spring (or lockbar)


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I'm by far not an expert, but I haven't seen decoration like the mouche outside of French knives. (I also don't often see such beautiful guillochage, either, but that's a different discussion.) I find it largely unique to French knives, and typically Laguiole at that - I can't think of seeing a mouche on other patterns.
 
coffeemike said:
I'm by far not an expert, but I haven't seen decoration like the mouche outside of French knives. (I also don't often see such beautiful guillochage, either, but that's a different discussion.) I find it largely unique to French knives, and typically Laguiole at that - I can't think of seeing a mouche on other patterns.
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If it looks like a bee or fly it usually will be on a laguiole. But in a Le thiers you have one with a T on it. On a Le camarguais that I own there is one in the shape of a trident.
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And I am sure that it exists on other French regional knives.


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I think the yssingeaux has a fly.
If they're all called mouche, and mouche means fly, I would guess that the fly was the first notable decoration on this part.

I believe the fly was something to Napoleon, perhaps related to the Egyptian revival fad at his court. In Egypt the fly was a symbol of courage, which makes sense if you think of the way they will return to the spot where you failed to swat them.

Jolipapa will be along to straighten us out, I trust.
 
scrteened porch said:
I think the yssingeaux has a fly.
If they're all called mouche, and mouche means fly, I would guess that the fly was the first notable decoration on this part.

I believe the fly was something to Napoleon, perhaps related to the Egyptian revival fad at his court. In Egypt the fly was a symbol of courage, which makes sense if you think of the way they will return to the spot where you failed to swat them.

Jolipapa will be along to straighten us out, I trust.
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Supposedly Napoleon gave special authorization to Laguiole knife makers to use the bee which was the imperial symbol. I also read that it may be a urban legend


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terrinecold said:
I am talking about the sculpted end of the spring or lockbar. Which is traditionally forged on the spring or lockbar (in lower quality knives it is welded). It needs to be forged if you want it to be one piece with the spring (or lockbar) as it is flattened sideways and wider that the spring (or lockbar)


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I don't think there would be a direct translation then. Seems to be a feature of these style of knives so they could call it whatever they wanted or use the literal translation.
 
by the way the reason for that question is that after a few fixed blade I am making my first folder, it is a lockback and as I am french I want to have this tradditional embelishment on it and I wanted to ask advices in the maker forum but was looking for the right words. Seems that I'll have to explain it completely.
 
There isn't a word in English for it and I suppose it's because this decoration is a typically Gallic embellishment.

You could perhaps just refer to it as a 'spring decoration' or maybe 'figurehead' 'embellishment' if you like? That Fleur de lys and the Boar's Head are very attractive figures.

I thought the 'fly' is sometimes referred to as a 'bee'/ abeille? Or perhaps it's because fly sounds rather verminous in English and bees make honey so it's changed when translated?:eek::D

Good luck with your knife making.:thumbup:

Regards, Will
 
Yes even in French the most common one is supposed to be a bee for the same reason which you mentioned. And since it is commonly done with filework which is rather stylized it could be either. I think the ones I posted at the start of the post are made with hot punches which will allow for more details.


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scrteened porch said:
I think the yssingeaux has a fly.
If they're all called mouche, and mouche means fly, I would guess that the fly was the first notable decoration on this part.

I believe the fly was something to Napoleon, perhaps related to the Egyptian revival fad at his court. In Egypt the fly was a symbol of courage, which makes sense if you think of the way they will return to the spot where you failed to swat them.

Jolipapa will be along to straighten us out, I trust.
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In fact we don't know much about that and the mistery will probably still live long. :)
Technically the mouche is the part at the end of the spring you had to pull up to free the blade. The napoleonian symbol was a bee.
You'll find partly an explanation here.
 
It is generally referred to as a mouche by English speakers and writers as well, as it generally only comes up in conversation about French knives. French words have been migrating into English from time to time since at least 1066.
 
Well, not very ancient anyway, if it's certain that the first Laguiole bee was in 1909.
Funny I didn't realize I was confounding bees and flies.
 
I have seen a similar "mouche" on certain spanish Navaja style knives. That is the only other place I have seen it. Mouche literally means fly so I believe the english translation would be "fly" I have seen it on some laguiole knives that are not even folding knives, like a set of steak knives. By the way Abielle is bee in french. Same root as Apiary.
 
Lapedog said:
I have seen a similar "mouche" on certain spanish Navaja style knives. That is the only other place I have seen it. Mouche literally means fly so I believe the english translation would be "fly" I have seen it on some laguiole knives that are not even folding knives, like a set of steak knives. By the way Abielle is bee in french. Same root as Apiary.
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Exactly what I'm sayin'. I wonder if the Spanish word for it is mosca?
 
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