Mountainsmith Lumbar pack: Performance difference between Recycled series vs Original

U

Ultraman

Joined
Oct 28, 2005
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Any help or opinions appreciated. I am interested in the Mountainsmith Day pack
Day6XL.jpg

The Recycled series recycles 16-17 plastic bottles to produce PET nylon fabric. Specs on website are:
* YKK zippers
* Delta Compression System
* Fabric: 450d PET Velocity nylon body fabric 150d PET rip stop lining
* Hypalon reinforcements


The original seems to have a different lining spec:
* YKK zippers
* Delta Compression System
* 420d Volocity nylon body fabric, 420d High Denisty nylon reinforcements, 210d Mini rip stop nylon lining
* Hypalon reinforcements


I realize one is more eco friendly, but I am interested to know if there are performance differences (strength, toughness, abrasion resistance, etc.) between the original nylon versus the PET recyced stuff. Also, do you think the different inner lining denier (210d mini ripstop vs. 150d PET) is enough to make one better/stronger than the other?

Any fabric experts out there? User experiences or otherwise? Any constructive comments are appreciated :) Thanks
 
I have one of the older series, and all I can tell you is that if you're going to load that thing up, you'll need some "strappettes" to get it to ride properly!
 
I suspected that would be the case, thanks for confirming (I think they sell strapettes that allow backpack-style carry).
 
+1 for the Strappettes. They really help when carrying a heavier load.

I have an older Day Pack. I like the newer ones with the bottom cinch straps, bottle pockets, and yellow interior. i do not believe you'll find a performance difference between a new pack made out of recycled materials vs. a new pack made with new materials. They're all good.
 
Why bother so much about Strappettes? If you need to carry a heavy load... just pick a full blown backpack!
Mikel
 
Mikel_24 said:
Why bother so much about Strappettes? If you need to carry a heavy load... just pick a full blown backpack!
Mikel
Click to expand...

Yep. I have an older MS Daypack. Then I realized I needed Strappettes to make it carry okay. Then I figured, "Why not just carry a real daypack?" I now use my old MS daypack for a travel bag.
 
I made my own straps, much better now.
 
Mikel_24 said:
Why bother so much about Strappettes? If you need to carry a heavy load... just pick a full blown backpack!
Mikel
Click to expand...

In my experience most day packs do not have an adequte hip belt for distibuting the wieght into your hips where it should be. My MS Cairn has a very good belt that does a good job of properly distributing the weight. Where the strapettes come is the help balance heavy loads better thatn if you did not have them.
 
I am probably much more concerned about the environment than most people. That being said, the recycled may "seem" more eco-friendly, but that may only be at the surface.

I have not seen the data to convince me that recycling to make things like this is worthwhile. After all, first there is the collection of the materials, then a manufacturing process using energy and pollution to put the product into a useable form, and then you actually have to build the final product, usually with inferior properties. Which is better....that, or just starting from new material? I haven't seen enough data to convince me either way.

With that said, I would say the bottom line is buy the one you want.

More that switching to CF bulbs, or reusing cups to avoid disposables, or turning your thermostat down, the biggest way for people to make a positive impact on the environment is to stop being such a good "consumer" and stick to buying things that are important.

My 2 cents :D
 
I have also found that loading this thing up makes it unmanageble as a lumbar pack. I've relegated mine to bug out bag status.
 
briangandrews said:
I am probably much more concerned about the environment than most people. That being said, the recycled may "seem" more eco-friendly, but that may only be at the surface.

I have not seen the data to convince me that recycling to make things like this is worthwhile. After all, first there is the collection of the materials, then a manufacturing process using energy and pollution to put the product into a useable form, and then you actually have to build the final product, usually with inferior properties. Which is better....that, or just starting from new material? I haven't seen enough data to convince me either way.

With that said, I would say the bottom line is buy the one you want.

More that switching to CF bulbs, or reusing cups to avoid disposables, or turning your thermostat down, the biggest way for people to make a positive impact on the environment is to stop being such a good "consumer" and stick to buying things that are important.

My 2 cents :D
Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree with your viewpoint. My concern is getting something inferior, worse still, I can't find the original ones anymore at the retail stores I have visited. I ordered one from Amazon based on the published specs, however, they sent me the Recycled series model, thus my post.

In my case, it had nothing to do with being "environmentally" friendly (I do my part at my job, lived in a country and had a lifestyle in a different country for 20 plus years that was very frugal with resources and not as wasteful as where I'm at now). I actually don't like the idea of not having a choice anymore, and worried about the change in materials.

I understand the 450d exterior cloth is equal in performance to the original, and am reassured by some of the comments here. However, my only other conclusion is that the ripstop interior nylon cloth in the recycled series is 150d, and is thus weaker than the 210d in the original Classic series. Then again, maybe in pragmatic terms this makes no difference at all. :)


Re: straps, a full blown backpack may not ventilate as well as the lumbar (sweaty back syndrome), also, the lumbar is meant for smaller loads, and I guess what you would call low drag, higher mobility?

In any case, I want to thank you all for the excellent input. :thumbup:
 
The ventilation issue is important. I was glad to have a hip pack recently while hiking in Arizona. The air getting to my exposed back was a welcome breeze.
 
Gotcha ;)

I actually have the Mountainsmith Tour, and I bought about a year ago and when the regular version and the recycled version were both readily available. I was able to compare them both side by side in the store and decided on the non-recycled version. There is no real reason than I can point to other than the texture just felt better.

If I didn't have the option, I would feel fine with the recycled. They still make good stuff, and I am sure it will hold up.
 
I have a recycled Tour and It seems to be holding up well. They diddnt have the regular model in the store at the time so im not sure side by side how it compared. the material does seem a little rougher than other packs from this company.

The pack is nice +1 for the strappettes. this pack is nice in hot weather but im not crazy about it in cold.

I really wish they made a hydration pack version, I usually rig one to it anyway but it would be nice if they had a pocket for it.
 
The Mountainsmith website lists both the recycled and original lumbar packs. I don't know what the status of the manufacturing is.

It's true that "Green" technology isn't always more energy efficient than old technology. One example might be corn-based ethanol. It takes more oil to grow the corn and turn it into gas that you get to burn in your car at the end. I say "might" because the analysis is tricky, and I haven't yet seen one that I believe. There are many, many variables, and the final answer depends on where you draw your box around the system. (Example: You have to harvest the corn. Does the gas running the harvester count in your analysis? Does the gas it took to manufacture and deliver the harvester count?) Three arguments for green technology - first, in this case it keeps stuff out of a landfill. Second, we have to use "green" methods to improve them. New technology is frequently going to be less efficient than existing methods, since we've had lots of time to get good at the old process. As we use the green method more, it will benefit from continual practice. Also, efficiency will increase through economies of scale as the new method becomes more widespread. Third, we're eventually going to run out of oil - or it will become too expensive to be practical for many things. (By we, I mean us, or our grandkids, or great-grandkids or some generation down the line.) We need to develop green methods now, while we can mess around with them.
 
EmsRescueGuy said:
I really wish they made a hydration pack version, I usually rig one to it anyway but it would be nice if they had a pocket for it.
Click to expand...

They did make a couple of models with 1 liter bladders. They canbe hard to find as they have been discountinued.
I don't know what they have left in stock but I it is worth checking into if you are really looking for one.
http://www.backcountrygear.com/catalog/packdetail.cfm/MS5013
http://www.backcountrygear.com/catalog/packdetail.cfm/MS5014
 
James 61 said:
In my experience most day packs do not have an adequte hip belt for distibuting the wieght into your hips where it should be. My MS Cairn has a very good belt that does a good job of properly distributing the weight. Where the strapettes come is the help balance heavy loads better thatn if you did not have them.
Click to expand...

I guess it is me then... because my smallest day pack is a 40l pack from VAUDE. It has wide stiff padded belt... and removable! (for climbing). Tough as nails. I usuallly carry it half filled or less but the compression straps help a lot distributing the stuff inside. When I don't want to carry anything at all (but water and some Power Bars) I use a CamelBag look alike with a PlatyPlus bladder inside. It has enough room for those small items like the cell phone, a Vic and a small ziplock bag with goodies (bic ligther, some first aid supplies, cordage, kleenex, sunscreen, etc). It also has a bungee cord in the outside so I can attach there a 100g Polartec fleece.

Mikel
 
Mikel_24 said:
I guess it is me then... because my smallest day pack is a 40l pack from VAUDE. It has wide stiff padded belt... and removable! (for climbing). Tough as nails. I usuallly carry it half filled or less but the compression straps help a lot distributing the stuff inside. When I don't want to carry anything at all (but water and some Power Bars) I use a CamelBag look alike with a PlatyPlus bladder inside. It has enough room for those small items like the cell phone, a Vic and a small ziplock bag with goodies (bic ligther, some first aid supplies, cordage, kleenex, sunscreen, etc). It also has a bungee cord in the outside so I can attach there a 100g Polartec fleece.

Mikel
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. What works for some does not work for others.

Hence my comment about in my expereince. Currently the only packs I own with decent hip belts are my MS Cairn, an older REI pack (no idea what model it was given to me) that has got to be 4000+ ci and my Dueter ChildComfort III. The rest of my packs are a Eddie Bauer I used for college and a Dueter CrossBike I use when riding and the "belt" on both of them suck. I had a pack similuar in size to yours but that was 15+ years ago and my memory of it was that it predated all of the current advances in pack design. No internal stiffeners, no sternum strap and the belt was pathetic. I guess when I get some extra cash together I need to look into a better day pack.
 
James 61 said:
Not necessarily. What works for some does not work for others.
Click to expand...

:thumbup:True

I also enjoy having nice padding in summer but I can live without it in winter... thicker clothes pad enough. Climbing is a whole different matter because you need to have quick access to your harness so thick clumsy belts are a no-no. When doing alpine climbs sometimes you may feel the need of lifthing your backpack with a hand to protect your neck while you pray not to be hitted by rockfalls or ice falls.... so belts are a no no again.

Don't those fanny packs bounce a lot when you hike? and how about running?

Mikel
 
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