Mounting Scopes and Zeroing

Old CW4

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Many times I've had customers come into my shop and buy two or more 20 round boxes of 308, 30-06, 7mm mag, 300 Win mag, etc., so they could go sight their rifles. Wow! It takes two rounds to zero a rifle to a gnat's behind. Here's how.

Assuming a propertly mounted scope and preliminary bore sighting, go to your shooting location. Take a large cardboard box and some black plastic tape with you.

Pace off 100 yards and position the box with a large side facing your shooting position. With the tape, make a small 'X' in the approximate center of the box. At your shooting position, set up your rifle on a table, pickup tail gate, or even a suitable large rock or mound of dirt. Sand bag the rifle or have it in a shooting rest so it won't move.

Carefully, carefully sight the X on the box and squeeze (repeat, squeeze) off one round. Most of us know when we've fired correctly, right breathing, no trigger jerk, and so on. Hopefully, that's what you've done. Go to the box. If your shot is centered in the X you can quit and go home. If not, and it usually is not, place a small square of the black tape over the bullet hole.

Go back to your shooting position. Take off the screw covers from the scope's adjustment screws. Make your rifle as stable as possible with sand bags or whatever. Then carefully, carefully put your scope cross hairs precisely on the original X.

This last step is tricky. You must have the rifle stable and then adjust your scope crosshairs precisely to the tape square over the bullet hole without moving the rifle. What you're actually doing is bore sighting your rifle with bullets. You aimed at a marked point and fired but the bullet didn't hit there but somewhere else. Okay, you resume your original point of aim, then move the scope cross hairs only so they're over the actual bullet strike.

You're now zeroed. To confirm it, fire a second shot at the original X and you should be right there.

Another method is to take a tape measure with you. Aim carefully at a marked point on a target or box and take one careful shot. Go to the target and USE the tape measure. If your shot is four inches high and six inches to the left for example, and assuming your scope has the usual one-quarter inch clicks at 100 yards on its adjustments, then move the elevation screw 16 clicks down and the windage screw 24 clicks to the right. Your next shot should be right on or darned close.

BTW, I refuse to get into arguements concerning zeroing at 50, 100, 200 yards, and so on A 30-06 firing a 150-160 grain bullet and zeroed at 100 yds will be dead on at that range. Then about three inches high at 200, and back on dead center at 300. If you know this, why fudge with zeroing at various ranges? That same 30-06 will be about 16 inches low at 400 and close to six to seven feet low at 500. At 1000 yards, it will be about 80 feet low..... Really. Gravity does catch up with us fast. A 7mm magnum will, by comparison, be about four feet low at 500 yards. Why? Because it's higher velocity pushes the bullet out farther as gravity pulls it down.

It is true, BTW, that if you fire a bullet from a horizontally held rifle and drop one from the rifle chamber's height at the same instant, both bullets will hit the ground at the same time---caused by old lady Gravity pulling them down equally regardless if one bullet is movinmg fast horizontally or not....

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Scope Mounting: Have the correct scope rings for your model rifle and scope. Use the proper sized screwdriver or screwdriver bit and screw the bottom half of the ring set to the rifle. Please don't get carried away with this. You don't have to make the screws 'squeak' or deform their slots. If it makes you feel better, use some 'Locktite.' I have never had scope mount screws come loose with a firm tightening and no Locktite.

Set the scope in the lower mounts and use just a couple of screws on each upper portion to just snug the upper rings over the scope. Note: Most scope ring sets have four screws to mate each half so I just use a couple, one on each side, at this point.

You must now set your eye relief. Be generous with this since you do not want a broken pair of glasses or radically reshaped eyebrow when you fire your cannon. Beat in mind that firing your rifle on the range is one thing and suddenly twisting to take a snap shot at a deer, elk, or moose is something else, so give yourself as much 'fudging' room as possible with eye relief.

Now the tricky part and the part I absolutely hate, getting the vertical cross hairs vertical. As you look through the scope, use your creator given sense of le4ft/right, up-down to get the vertical cross hair to what you and you alone consider to be vertical. Snug the two screws on each ring a bit at a time and alternate, kind of like you should do lug bolts when you change a car tire. The goal is to snug down the screws until they're tight and still have the cross hairs vertical. You cannot imagine, maybe you can, the foul words that have pervaded my shop as I've fussed with this so many times. Anyway, I finally get the damned thing vertical and put in the remaining screws. I carefully snug them down and, at least eight times out of ten, damn it to hell, the cross hairs go off vertical and cant one way or the other! They say 'with patience and perseverance you can have sex with a fly' so I take a deep breath and start over. My customer will want it right and so do I, so I fuss and cuss until it is right and everything is tight. Please come back to me if you know a simple, quick way to do this because I haven't yet found it. Please!

Okay, scope is mounted, now to bore sight. I do NOT use laser or other gizmos, I like the old fashioned way. I remove or open the bolt or lever. With the bolt ouj of the way, no problem to look through the bore. If a lever or a semi auto with non removable bolt, I have an assortment of mirror shards mostly from broken lady's compact mirrors which are a cheap buy at the local drug store. I break the mirrors with a hammer or sometimes a couple of pairs of pliers. I also have some small dental mirrors which will go into many rifle actions. Anyway, I clamp the rifle in my gun vise and aim it out my shop window at a neighbor's front window which is precisely 107 yards away. I either look through or have a piece of mirror positioned in the receiver area so I can look through it and out the bore. I precisely center on some prominent feature of the window, then move the scope crosshairs to the exact same point and there I am. Does this work? Hell, yes! I have had legions of customers tell me how accurately their rifles shoot with my bore sighting. I've also taught many of them who were interested how to DIY.

There are no mysteries to scope mounting and bore sighting. The physics are simple and so are the processes. Getting everything to line up and stay there is the PITA.....!
 
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Outstanding wrap of a difficult task. :thumbup:

With the greatest of respect, can I suggest a method of obtaining vertical in the cross hairs?
Suspend a black thread with a weight from a point above the bench rest, just in front of the muzzle, let it rest and then match the scope vertical cross hair to the thread. Doesn't need to be exact, just parallel.

Concur with the alternate snug down of the scope's mounting screws.

Happiness is the ability to put a round within an inch of the point of aim.
 
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Great post, thanks! I can't speak to the mounting and bore sighting (and so I'm very happy to have these instructions), but I can tell you that a friend of mine who was on the Marine marksmanship team (with plenty of trophies, commendations and newspaper articles from back in the day) taught me both of those methods for zeroing almost exactly to the word the way you described it.

It's a wonderful thing when those who know teach!
 
Blueym, Thanks for the comeback. Yes, I do use a visual vertical guide but the rub is when you tighten the screws. Nearly every time, the darned scope will wind up canted slightly one way or the other. Then it's loosen up, reset, and tighten again, sometimes several times until I get the order of screw tightening right and also intentionally cant the darned scope to just the right angle so the tightening sequence pulls it straight. This results in a scope mounted both vertical and tight but it can be a royal pain in the butt!
BTW, some of the cheapie scope mounts with only two screws per ring can be a real bear; the quality products, as always, are easier. Don't stint on scope mounts. Buy the best.
 
Nice. I'd never heard of this method for zeroing a scope, but it makes sense. Next time I have to perform this chore, I'll give it a shot.

On the scope mounting: After putting about 100 rounds through my new 10/22, the scope mounting screws came loose. I'd tightened them firmly but not excessively when I mounted the scope, but it evidently wasn't enough. I used some medium strength Loc-tite on the threads, and in the last few hundred rounds it's done fine.
 
I see a couple problems with the method described. First of all, you're assuming the rifle is accurate. Some rifles can't shoot sub MOA. In which case, you take a few shots and split the difference between the lot of them.

Secondly, are you zero-ing for a cold or a warmed up barrel? The first shot out of a cold barrel will usually be different than subsequent shots. Hunters would probably want to zero in for a cold barrel. Target shooters would want to zero in for a warm barrel.

Finally, unless your rest is nice and solid, you're gonna have a hard time adjusting the scope without moving the rifle at all.

Personally, I think zero-ing in a scope is one of the most enjoyable aspects of shooting. Not sure why I do. It's just fun to shoot and shoot until you're sure your scope is perfect.
 
Mountainman 38, Agree, sir! And, just a tip, but something to check on 10/22s is the two sizeable allen screws that hold the barrel to the receiver. Surprisingly, these can work loose and then the barrel flops and wiggles, a little or a lot. You only become aware of this if you hold the barrel firmly with one hand, the receiver in the other, and work it back and forth. Sort of like a loose tooth.
 
Wildewind, I'm a practical shooter and not a sub minute of angle or benchrest shooter and that applies, I believe, to the majority of shooters and hunters. I'm sorry if I somehow implied three shot, one-quarter inch groups at 100 yards. I didn't mean to, however, just about every rifle I own, and I have a bunch, will go RIGHT where I aim and within a one inch or less circle or margin of error, whether it's the first 'cold' shot or at the end of a box full.

I also do things with very large caliber handguns at extreme ranges that many think are impossible. How? Why? I really don't know except I've been doing it for 60 plus years and it's like picking my nose, just something I do with little effort and regardless if the gun is cold or hot. I don't claim to be an Ed McGivern but I can routinely duplicate some of his long range 'stunts' such as practical accuracy out to 1,000 yards, except I use 45-70 and 44mag handguns which weren't available to him. I even do 500 yard 'impossible' shots with long barreled 22 pistols, good 'ol Ruger MkIIs with ten inch barrels.

Believe me, I'm NOT trying to show off my (Ha! non extistent) 'superior' knowledge in posting about the things I've learned over a lifetime. I only and truly want to pass on some of the practical knowledge learned from many years of shooting, hunting, combat, and gun smithing before I too go into the Cosmos. Since I'll be 76 within a couple of months, that can't be too much longer in coming.

Please believe me, I write about NOTHING I haven't done and can't do. BS for the sake of BSing is not in my vocabulary. I'm nothing more than an old soldier, LEO, and hunter who has 'been there and done that.'
 
I'm sure you're more experienced than I am. I'm sure your method would work great for a lot of people. I used to be a competitive benchrest shooter, so I guess I'm looking at it from that standpoint. When you're aiming for a target the size of bread crumb at 100 yards, little things like cold barrels make a big difference.
 
good post man... to save bullets my dad and i went in on a barrel sighting kit. works really well to get you close. you will still need to shoot the rifle to fine tune.
 
Old CW4,
Well explained on the sighting in. I find it much easier if a second person can adjust the turrets. That way and "bumping" or twisting of the rifle is felt/seen. I am a prone/sitting shooter and bipod baby whenever I can- it does mean passing up a lot of shots.
I had an old friend that used to shoot soda cans offhand at 100 yards with a 2.5" model 66. Just disgusting! LOL!
Thanks,
2Door
 
Mountainman 38, Agree, sir! And, just a tip, but something to check on 10/22s is the two sizeable allen screws that hold the barrel to the receiver. Surprisingly, these can work loose and then the barrel flops and wiggles, a little or a lot. You only become aware of this if you hold the barrel firmly with one hand, the receiver in the other, and work it back and forth. Sort of like a loose tooth.

Thanks for the tip. That would explain why my shots don't all go through the same hole at 300 yards!
 
Thanks for the tip. That would explain why my shots don't all go through the same hole at 300 yards!

Thats probably not the only reason your 10/22 doesn't shoot into the same hole at 300 yards :D

Good helpful hints CW. I've noticed over the years too that another thing that can cause problems with scopes moving when tightening rings, is that some rings are not perfectly round.
Which is why on most of mine I've lapped them them to make sure the scope fits correctly. I've used exclusively Leupold dual dovetail rings and bases for years.
For two reasons, I most shoot high powered rifles, 338's and 375's and this system is almost bullet proof...
I've used Warne rings and bases a couple times and they have been great too.
I usually don't have much trouble getting the reticle set straight. A rifle I bought quite a few years ago, had the old style Weaver rings that only have screws on one side. I ordered rings and bases to fit this rifle, but I really wanted to shoot it. So I put a Leupold 4 power on that was just sitting in the drawer so I could shoot it.
I cussed those damn rings. It must have taken me a half hour to get it set straight. When the Leupolds arrived, I threw the old Weavers in the trash:D

I know most people use the old system of rings and bases, but I despise the rear mounts that have the adjusting screws. The rear mount is adjustable from side to side in a straight line, while the front ring turns. I may be completely off base, but I've always thought because of that, it is going to put the scope in a bind. When one end of the scope wants to turn at an angle, and the other end wants to move in a straight line, something has to give. It would be different if both were adjustable side to side in a straight line, then the straight scope tube would be moving in the same direction.

I had this discussion years ago with a friend, and did a drawing showing the movement using this system. When he saw the drawing, it made sense to him.
Before he saw the drawing, it didn't click.

I know this system has been used for years and works fine for most people, but I always over analyze things :D

If you look at the contact area on the edge of the screw that goes against the base, there really isn't much material touching. I wouldn't worry about it so much on rifles with less recoil, but on heavy recoil rifles, I like things a little more substantial.

Keep up the gun threads. I like knives, but I really like to talk guns too
 
Great to see some serious wisdom being passed on here from those that have BTDT.

I like knives in all their permutations and combinations, and have learned to appreciate good engineering, quality build and maintenance of scary sharp edges.

I also like guns, and take a lot of pride in shooting as well as I can despite advancing age and retreating eyesight.
The "good ol' days" of shooting flies out of the sky with iron sights are now long gone, but I have embraced technology and enjoy my indoor small calibre shooting just as much as the rip roaring hunting days of old.

Keep it up, gentlemen. It is a sad day passes that we all don't learn something new. :thumbup: :thumbup:
 
Thats probably not the only reason your 10/22 doesn't shoot into the same hole at 300 yards :D
...

Heh?! What else could it be?! It's certainly not ME... oh yeah, I guess the wind plays a part, too...

I've enjoyed reading a lot of discussions/opinions over on RFC.com about .22's. It seems there are shooters who actually get hits at 300 yards, though it's pretty spotty (maybe lucky?). Hit's with a little bitty .22LR at that range are kind of like sailing a paper airplane through a hula-hoop at 100 feet, I suppose. Fun to try, anyway!
 
Heh?! What else could it be?! It's certainly not ME... oh yeah, I guess the wind plays a part, too...

I've enjoyed reading a lot of discussions/opinions over on RFC.com about .22's. It seems there are shooters who actually get hits at 300 yards, though it's pretty spotty (maybe lucky?). Hit's with a little bitty .22LR at that range are kind of like sailing a paper airplane through a hula-hoop at 100 feet, I suppose. Fun to try, anyway!

Absolutely. The great thing about 22's is that you can keep trying and it doesn't cost much to do it.

I was at the range a few years ago with some rifles and pistols, and had my old snub nose 357. The range master walked by and said. You aren't really going to shoot that at 100 yards are you ? You can't hit anything past 20 yards with that because of the short sight radius...

To be honest, I had never shot it at that distance but was curious.
I shot 6 rounds at 100 yards while he was watching me. All 6 hit the target :D
They weren't close enough to call them a group, but they were all on paper.
When I turned to look at him, he was standing there with his jaw dropped.
He told me, if he hadn't seen it, he would have never believed it...

I guess thats why I don't always believe everything that I read :D

I've never had any really accurate 22's, but a good friend has a couple Anschutz (?) rifles. They are really nice
 
Absolutely. The great thing about 22's is that you can keep trying and it doesn't cost much to do it.

I was at the range a few years ago with some rifles and pistols, and had my old snub nose 357. The range master walked by and said. You aren't really going to shoot that at 100 yards are you ? You can't hit anything past 20 yards with that because of the short sight radius...

To be honest, I had never shot it at that distance but was curious.
I shot 6 rounds at 100 yards while he was watching me. All 6 hit the target :D
They weren't close enough to call them a group, but they were all on paper.
When I turned to look at him, he was standing there with his jaw dropped.
He told me, if he hadn't seen it, he would have never believed it...

I guess thats why I don't always believe everything that I read :D

I've never had any really accurate 22's, but a good friend has a couple Anschutz (?) rifles. They are really nice

Nice. I've seen some pretty amazing shots (on TV) from snub nosed .38's, but I doubt I could hit anything smaller than a VW past about 50 feet with one.

My 10/22 is a lot of fun, for an inexpensive .22LR. I shot a lot as a youth, but haven't had a chance for a long time. Now that I live in Spokane, I have a lot more open country to shoot.

My gun was ok stock, except for it's terrible trigger pull. It was so heavy and gritty it felt like I was breaking a green tree branch every time I shot it.:grumpy:

Since I used my knife sharpening tools to stone the trigger group, took off the barrel band and cut the stock, added a rubber butt plate, and mounted an inexpensive but decent 3-9 power scope on it, it's like an (almost) whole new gun. When money permits, I'll mount a Green Mountain bull barrel on it for weight and improved accuracy. I really like the semi-auto nature of the Ruger -- it's great being able to see your last shot, and adjust without having to reset your position.

Those Anschutz's are sweet. My folks have a Savage-Anschutz with a nice scope that's about 30 years old, and it's wonderful. The stock has a nice swell that fits my hand very well, and the trigger has a nice light feel. I haven't shot it for a long time, so it would be interesting to see how accurate I could be now that I've got a bit more experience.
 
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Making something the way you want it to be is part of the fun. I was always going to buy a 10/22 and then buy all the goodies for it, just never got around to it.

They are a great rifle, heck most all of Rugers guns are very well made IMHO.
I've been out of the new gun loop for awhile, but they use to be an incredible value too.

I would definitely take out your parents 22 and do some shooting. A lot of times a person will find they are a better shot then they realized, when they get a chance to use an accurate gun.

BTW, I really like the Spokane area. A good friend of mine moved there from Kalama, Wa a couple years ago and really likes it there
 
Making something the way you want it to be is part of the fun. I was always going to buy a 10/22 and then buy all the goodies for it, just never got around to it.

They are a great rifle, heck most all of Rugers guns are very well made IMHO.
I've been out of the new gun loop for awhile, but they use to be an incredible value too.

I would definitely take out your parents 22 and do some shooting. A lot of times a person will find they are a better shot then they realized, when they get a chance to use an accurate gun.

BTW, I really like the Spokane area. A good friend of mine moved there from Kalama, Wa a couple years ago and really likes it there

I've had a lot of fun with my 10/22. It cost me $250 with an extra 25 round magazine and tax, which is a pretty cheap price for a lot of fun. I've enjoyed learning it's internals, as I've worked on the trigger and replacing the recoil buffer, and customizing it really makes it mine.

Plus, the price of .22LR ammo, and the light recoil make it a pleasure to shoot. I don't know how you big bore guys do it -- if that's what I had to shoot all the time, I think I'd start flinching as soon as I walked into the same room as a big rifle.:o

I'd like a chance to do some range time with the Savage-Anschutz, but my folks live near Sacramento (a multi hour/day drive with my three kids), so we don't get down there too often. One of these days...

Yeah, we really like Spokane. It's nice open country, a lot like Bend, as I recall. I used to go down Hwy. 97 to get from Walla Walla (school) to Sacramento, and I really like that central Oregon area. I have friends who have done a lot of climbing at Smith Rocks, but I never could take the time.

Now that the economy has tanked, have real estate prices come down in that area? They were grossly overpriced, from what I hear -- too many retirees wanting to take advantage of the climate there.
 
The real estate prices here have gone in the tank :D The houses that were selling for 350-500,000 in a matter of a couple weeks two years ago, now are on the market for 140-175,000 and most of those aren't selling.
Most of them are foreclosures, and are sitting empty...

You are correct, the prices were way overinflated. There is no industry here to speak of (just tourism), and most of the jobs that are here don't pay a lot.
So the locals can't afford to buy the houses.

Smith Rock is a very popular area. Lately just about every other week, search and rescue has had to go retrieve someone off of the rock.
My parents live in that area. Its a nice area.

We live on the south end of Bend. Its nice because I can drive about 10 minutes from the house and go shooting :D
 
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