Moving past the kids stuff...

H

Hesparus

Joined
Oct 31, 2004
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As I've mentioned before, I make all of my knives on a crappy $110 Delta shopmaster grinder. It takes me about 4 hours to grind a single blade to where I can start hand rubbing it for another three hours.
I am thinking about moving up in the world and getting a more expensive grinder. I want to avoid paying $1300 for a bader, or something. What about other brands? Is there anything in the $300-$500 range? I'm not good with electronics so building my own is out of the question. I used a bader multi-tool belt-grinder attachment in college but I'm not sure how much better it was than what I've got right now.
What do you suggest?

- Chris
 
don't avoid the cash go for the KMG. do you flat grind or hollow grind?
if you flat grind you can score the machine for a quick 650 plus shipping. then check out ebay for surplus leeson DC motors. you can get something for around 100 bucks. and surplus center is a good source for a very inexpensive speed control.

http://search.ebay.com/leeson_W0QQc...ftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQsacatZQ2d1QQsascsZ2QQsbrbinZt

here are some buy it now results for good quick leeson motors.
a grinder is probably the most important tool you have in the shop, not something to cut corners on, Dan Koster could give you some tips on KMG on a shoestring budget. i'm sure he'll tell you the same thing, its well worth the cash when that thing gets to your house.
good luck man!
 
A search will give you lots of info, but since I went through this not too long ago, I'll summarize for you. On BFC, the most popular grinder is the KMG. A lot of people use others, but that is the one that people lust after, for the most part, and it's the one that is probably the most versatile. So, if you're looking to do lots of things, or you want to maximize your ability to produce knives (like you're a pro and it makes a difference if you spend 30 seconds changing the contact wheel or a couple minutes), then that would be the way to go. The URL is http://www.beaumontmetalworks.com.

That said, versatility comes with a price. Attachments aren't cheap, but the good news is that you can get into a basic KMG for about $600 plus change (plus motor, plus shipping... the things are HEAVY!!!). That gives you a flat platen. But, you can upgrade it pretty much in any direction you want to go. So, it's a great machine, I've never seen anything bad printed about it, it's versatile, it's expandable, you can go anywhere with the motor you want, etc, but it's a bit pricy (although seems reasonable compared to other professional models).

On yur budget you may want to look at Norm Coote's machines (http://www.cootebeltgrinder.com. He makes them in the USA, and for a little over $400 (plus change, plus shipping, plus motor, plus pulleys) you can get his 2x72 that allows flat grinding, slack belt grinding and hollow grinding. It is a 2-wheel machine instead of a 3-wheel machine like the Bader and KMG, so certain operations, like tapered tangs, are tough with the Coote. I have a Coote and I love it, but I don't have anything other than a bastard file to compare it to! The Coote is well made. You add your own motor. I got my 2x72 with 10" contact wheel, platen and the small wheel attachment, plus the pulleys I needed and a belt to run it all off the motor, for around mid $600's, shipped.

You can use anything, of course, but that's basically the way I see the options based on popular opinion. A few others around here use Coote's, too, and like them, but the general consensus is that if you are pretty serious about making knives and you have the ability to pay for the KMG, or to save up for it, then do so. OTOH, you could get a Coote on your budget and then get yourself a KMG fund and squirrel money away for an upgrade in the future if you want to. The real downside is that there is really not much of an opporunity to see these things in action and try them out before buying. So you just kind of have to look at the options and do a search and see what seems to fit your needs. Good luck and let us know what you end up with!!!
 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26226&item=7509743064&rd=1

hey chris this is the one to go for. nice price high speed but you can always
slow it down. you don't even need the variable speed you can use step pulleys. enclosed motor, fan cooled. continuous duty, 1.5HP is pretty good too. and it can run off of a basic electric set-up. single phase 115 volts.
not to mention it comes with a 1 year factory warranty. don't let this one get away. but it now and order the KMG
 
chiro has a good point with the coote. a little cheap and a little less versatile but it depends on the work you're going to do. the shipping for the KMG is going to cost you around 90 bucks. not sure on the coote.
but either way a motor is a must. and a good motor is the backbone of a good grinder. no matter how nice the grinder is if that wheel stops turning everytime you touch something to it, its no good. so let the motor be your number one, then the options or a coote or a Kalamazoo are there. there is also the grizzly grinder that comes with a motor. they're pretty nice too and very reasonable in price. good luck :p
 
the shipping for the KMG is going to cost you around 90 bucks. not sure on the coote.
Click to expand...
Coote was $35 to ship, but it's not as big. Ordering is a little slow because Norm doesn't use credit card processing, so you have to mail a money order, which takes a few days, etc. It was probably a week and a half between ordering and when I got my machine.

As far as motors, I went with a used 1HP and I haven't gotten it to stall yet, but I probably use less pressure than others do. If you have a motor shop in your town, call around and see what they have. I bought an awesome used 2HP Baldor motor for $100, but then found out that I would have to do some major stuff to my wiring at home to get it to work, so I downgraded to the 1HP Baldor, but it's been fine for me. Sometimes you can get good deals locally.
 
Michael J. Spangler said:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26226&item=7509743064&rd=1

hey chris this is the one to go for. nice price high speed but you can always
slow it down. you don't even need the variable speed you can use step pulleys. enclosed motor, fan cooled. continuous duty, 1.5HP is pretty good too. and it can run off of a basic electric set-up. single phase 115 volts.
not to mention it comes with a 1 year factory warranty. don't let this one get away. but it now and order the KMG
Click to expand...
While the HP is there, and you can slow it down, it's an open ended motor.
You need a TEFC (Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled) motor.
That one will not last long after the metal grindings get into it...
 
Also, isn't compressor duty a bad thing? Doesn't that mean it is meant to run for a bit and then be off for a bit. I was made to understand that if run continuously the motor would overheat and fail. Was I misinformed?
 
Also that motor is only 67% efficent. And the service factor is some letters I never heard of. A good motor would have a service factor of around 1.15 or better. I use a Dayton 1hp motor with a strong 110 volt coming to it. There is no way you could bog it down without breaking a belt on a 1 to 1 drive on a KMG. The motor was just a tad over $200.00 with tax, but its a workhorse TEFC. I am looking for a 3 phase with speed control running on 110 volt single phase. I think a bit better than a DC motor with speed control.
 
Chiro75 said:
I bought an awesome used 2HP Baldor motor for $100, but then found out that I would have to do some major stuff to my wiring at home to get it to work, so I downgraded to the 1HP Baldor, but it's been fine for me. Sometimes you can get good deals locally.
Click to expand...
You want to sell the 2hp baldor?
 
If it's still available and you want to pay shipping, sure. I can get it without a power cord or anything for $100, if they still have it. I have no idea what it would be to ship it, or how to box it up for shipping, though. It is a used motor, but it looked in good shape and they check them all out and stuff. 5/8" arbor, if I remember correctly. For another $20 I can throw in a Coote step pulley for the 5/8" spindle that I ended up not being able to use (my downgraded motor was 7/8"). My main concern is boxing it up properly, etc for shipping. But, if you want it I don't mind doing the legwork and stuff for you. If anyone knows the best way to crate it up, too, that'd be good. That Baldor is a TEFC enclosure, too, so it's plenty sweet. Weighs a ton!
 
FYI, the grizzly has been on backorder for 2 months :grumpy: and I cancelled my order and bought the coote, should be here next week.
 
Kalamazoo makes a few, I would suggest the 2x72, you'll need a motor and a belt but that's not too tough to work out.
Grizzly meets mixed reviews. People like Bader and Coote, but again $$$ is an issue.

Word on the street is no less than 1HP for serious grinding.

I used a KMG today actually (not mine :(), and it's really nice, but a little pricey. The Kalamazoo is reputed to be a quality product, I got the 2x48 model b/c I'm strapped for cash, I'll be getting it Tuesday and will throw up a review here. I have a 1HP motor (1725 RPM seems to be the way to go) waiting to be hooked up.


_z
 
Don't let those guys scare you off a Coote or KMG because of the added cost of a motor. You've got a perfectly good one in your Shopmaster! At least temporarily you could (I think) put a stepped pulley on one of the shafts and hook it up to your belt machine just like a normal motor. It'll be a little underpowered, but it would work for a while.

Alternately, you could take a look at the 1x42 combo grinders that Delta and Wilton make. I use the Wilton 4002 and I like it a lot. I got it for about $200 at work and have made all of my knives with it. A good coarse (36 grit) Norton SG Alumina belt on it will hog plenty of material off. Delta makes one that's almost identical and sells for about half that.

These are both 1/3hp machines, which I'm pretty sure is more powerful than your Shopmaster.

I'm also working on a way to put a tooling arm on my grinder so I can use split 2x72 belts (y'know, 1x72) on mine and have attachments and such. I'll post the results when I finish it.

-Allin
 
Kalamazoo makes a 2x72 less motor, info from their site;

2FS72 2" belt grinder GREAT for knifemaking !!
Less Motor, Multi-position.
Similar to the 2FS only 2" x 72" belt and 8" serrated contact wheel.
24 lbs Model: 2FS72

Dunno the price though, looks similar to the Coote design.
 
MJ Hofbauer said:
Kalamazoo makes a 2x72 less motor, info from their site;

2FS72 2" belt grinder GREAT for knifemaking !!
Less Motor, Multi-position.
Similar to the 2FS only 2" x 72" belt and 8" serrated contact wheel.
24 lbs Model: 2FS72

Dunno the price though, looks similar to the Coote design.
Click to expand...
My first knife grinder was the 2 X 72 Kalamazoo. The tracking left something to be desired. I made it into a surface grinder works great in this application. I love my KMG :D :D
 
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