MPC question

G

Gim

Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Messages
18
When I first got this knife, I found that I can easily disengage the lock by pressing the back of the locking bar with very little effort and very little movement of the bar. I disassemble the knife and this is what I saw. I try to push the locking bar further into the slot in the blade but this is as far as it will go. Am I the only person who thinks there is something wrong with this lock?

newstuff018.jpg


newstuff013.jpg
 
I would put it together and then send it back. There is no way the internals on that knife should look like that. You have just a few mm before that lock bar shears and your VERY expensive knife becomes a broken slipjoint. And people say LINER locks are unreliable...:p

-Anthony
 
I already spoke to Jason from Exxcess and e-mailed him a picture. This was back in early January. He asked why would anyone take a brand new knife apart, and he also said that is the way the knife was designed and he has not received any report of lock failure. He said there was nothing to fix so I didn't send it out. This was actually the second time I retured the MPC, the first time was the "bolt safeguard". He send a new one back to me (which is the one in the picture) and e-mailed me saying the slot in the handle for the bolt safe guard has a milling defect. The replacement has more problem than the first one. I know ER has a good reputation and this forums really like them, I guess I am just bad luck.
 
Sounds to me like you have a bad dealer. I'm not saying he's a cheat or a bad guy, but this is DEFINITELY not the way to get repeat customers. If taking the knife apart doesn't void the waranty, and I'd assume it doesn't since he didn't mention it, then what does he care what does it matter that you took the knife apart? You had a bad example (with an admitted defect), and so when the replacement didn't act in a way you expected then you took it apart to see if there was anything to worry about. THERE IS something to worry about. If I were a dealer, when you sent the knife back to me I'd have hand picked a replacement for you to make sure you'd be happy with it. It would also give me a chance to make sure I didn't get a bad batch and thus would be getting a lot of complaints about my product and damaging my reputation. Tell him you'd rather not risk your fingers on HIS comfort, and that he needs to make it right. I would not let myself be told by someone else that I have to accept a sub-standard product; and this example IS sub-standard. Basically, if my dealer wouldn't change it out and make sure I got a good one, I'd tell him to give me my money back and forget about any future sales. Selling you an unsafe product you're not able to use is just like stealing your money in my mind. On the other hand, if it DOES sheer, you can use his response as possible evidence when you sue him out of existence. His choice, I'd say.

-Anthony
 
Wow that's just wrong on so many levels. One of my co-workers has one. I just called him and he opened his up and the lock on his just about fills the notch on the blade. Send that baby back.
 
Thanks guys, I was just making sure I wasn't crazy. After a few phone calls and a few e-mails to the Extrema Ratio dealer back in January I decided not to send the knife back again. What else can I say to that guy after we debated over it and at the end he told me there is nothing to fix.

Last night I finally have the time to use my Dremel on the locking bar, I only take very little metal off but it is now sitting much further into the slot. You can see from the picture that I cannot file off any more material because the back of the locking bar is starting to come out of handle. Filing off anymore will make it unsafe. Now I feel safe enough to use it but I will never include it in my rotation.

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mpc_.jpg
 
That is just wrong!!! I am glad that YOU found a solution that you are happy with!!
 
I'd still send it back but skip the dealer and go right to ER. If they blow you any guff about using the dremel I would say that the dealer you bought it from wasn't going to help so you had to do what you had to do. Hopefully ER will stand behind it as there have been other reports on the exact same thing. (If you search here you may find it but someone else had just about exactly the same pictures as you do of the lockup.:thumbdn: )

oil

I tried searching for it but the engine here leaves a lot to be desired. (And yes, I've read the faq that says pretty much, "figure out the words you are looking for and then figure out other words that will find those because if you use the terms that make sense you will overload the site." Nice. YMMV
 
I was going say. I know I can fix that. I'm glad you posted that. For the record I want to clarify. Jason said that is the way it is designed? Because if that is the design of it I'm glad I didn't buy one. It reminds me of a Dozier designed Ka-Bar we just saw recently that had lock problems.

You know there is something to be said positively regarding liner locks, frame locks, axis locks, compression locks and nested compression locks. One thing you can appreciate about all of them over lock backs is that you always know where you stand with them regarding how much of the lock is engaged on the blade to get a visual of how secure it is. If there is an inherent weakness in the lockback it lies in the fact that you have to trust that the manufacturer or maker did their job right because unless you take it apart like you did you will never know until it bites you one day. Just another reason why I'm slowly moving toward being an axis lock fan more and more.

STR
 
You know this really bothers me. That is not a very good lock up. I take apart my fair share of folders and rebuild them and that has to be one of the worst lock ups I've seen on a supposedly high dollar quality built heavy duty folder. The Spyderco Calypso Jr. which is considered a light duty gents folder has more metal seating into the blade where the lock bar and the blade mate up than this knife pictured does. It is not normal and if Jason thinks it is he needs to personally call this back yard knife mechanic to get a few tips on how to properly build a lock back. If all are made this way then ER is relying an awful lot on the lock for the lock built into this knife.

There is also more to consider here in a lock back than just the mating up of the blade and the lock bar. Many people have no idea of how many 'schools of thought' there are out there in the 'proper' making of a lock bar.

For example: some makers harden the lock bar to the same hardness of the blade heat treating them together while other makers don't harden the lock bar at all. The ones not hardned are done this way because if the blade has play after the knife is assembled it is an easy fix using a small punch to squish out a small bit of the lock bar on each side where it meets the blade to make it lock up tight. You lock back owners can look on your lock bars and these punch marks are clearly evident most times if you depress the lock bar and move the part that mates to the blade up. Simply look on each side of the bar. If you see tiny little indents on the side and protrusions on the face its been adjusted. To continue: Still other makers harden the lock bar only to a point like the same hardness as the liners and lock spring (if stainless) which are usually somewhere in the vicinity of 45Rc which are still malable enough to adjust.

All these factors come into play forming questions in my mind when I see a lock mating to a blade the way the ER knife does. Just to give you some ideas of what goes through my mind. If that lock bar on the ER knife is not hardened or only partially hardened and it mates to a hardened blade that way with very little contact what part do you think is going to roll from wear over time as the both blade and lock bar stresses from use? Of course the lock bar will wear and roll in this case because there simply isn't enough metal there on that small lip to hold back a hardnened blade. If it gets to the point that something has to give the blade will win in this situation unless the lock bar seats deep enough.

In any given year I adjust several lock back folders as well as liner and frame lock folders that get loose from wear. I've already adjusted three in 06. You can tell immediately which ones are hard and which ones are malable or soft. All it taks is an anvil and a 3/32 flat end punch or hardened flat head screw driver and a small tap on the rotated out lock bar once you remove the blade. IF it is soft it better have a lot of meat on it sinking nice and deep for contact. Otherwise it spells nothing but trouble.

STR
 
Hi STR

Thanks for all the info. During my second conversation with Jason over the phone (after he confirmed he has seen the picture I send him), he told me that is the way it was designed. I asked, "you cannot honestly tell me, ER cut this much extra material off the blade to trap dirt?" He replied (not word for word), none has ever failed. And we talked for a few more minutes and I gave up.
 
That picture of the lock-up (or lack there of) on your MPC looks just like the pic of the lock-up (or lack there of) on the Dark Ops folder that was fairly recently shown on BF as well. Hmmm!

I won't say what this guy, Jason, sounds like, from what I've just read. However, I will say this, I think he deserves a lot less business! You may want to consider posting about him in the GB&U forum, so others know what to expect.

Good luck to you with this situation, and for Pete's sake DON'T USE THAT KNIFE!! From your pictures, it appears you have several other very GOOD, DEPENDABLE knives (I saw a Strider, a Spyderco, and an AFCK in that pic) to carry and use instead.

Best wishes,
3G
 
Hi 3G

Thanks for the advice, I have not use the MPC yet but I think I will put it back in the box where it has been sitting for the last 1.5 month. You are right, it is just not worth risking my fingers. Two questions, will posting at GB&U consider double posting and who is Pete?
 
Gim said:
Hi 3G

Thanks for the advice, I have not use the MPC yet but I think I will put it back in the box where it has been sitting for the last 1.5 month. You are right, it is just not worth risking my fingers. Two questions, will posting at GB&U consider double posting and who is Pete?
Click to expand...

I don't think that posting your experience with the person/dealer you mentioned, in the GB&U, would be "double posting", since, in this thread, you were mostly talking about your problems with, and asking questions about the knife (MPC).

Pete is not a person, just a name used in the commonly heard expression, "for Pete's sake". Some people say, "for God's sake", but I do not like to take God's name in vain. "For Pete's sake" just adds emphasis to what is being said. If I wanted to say, "don't use that knife", but wanted to add emphasis, I could say, "for Pete's sake don't use that knife", to do so. I am sorry for confusing you.

Best wishes,
3G
 
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