MUDD Fire knife

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recently exchanged a couple of e-mails with a working fireman. Got me to thinking about what might be a useful cutting tool for them: 1.) Start with a MUDD - Hawk lock is the best use with gloves un-latching mechanism I've run into.Oversize thumbstuds make it reasonable to get open with heavy gloves on.2.) Make the handle a bright color that can be retrieved out of the muck without a metal detector.3.) Wrap the entire handle in plastic and get it rated as insulated to 600V and of course high temp and solvent/liquid fuel resistant. Hawk "button" could be made out of something non-conductive?Too easy now days to stick it into something and find out that the other side is till electrically "hot".4.) personally not a fan of serrated blades -but might have a place/use on this tool's blade?5.) Equip the tool with the clothespin clip that was used on the later series of original MUDD knives (3" blade).Again - glove friendly and un-reasonably secure
Firefighters - would this work for you?
 
If you put a firefighter in a room with 2 anvils and came back in an hour, one would be broke, the other would be lost, and the FF wouldn't be able to tell you what happened to either :D

Seriously though, that all sounds good, but it also sounds expensive. I know me personally (career FF/EMT), I would be hesitant to take a knife that expensive and put it into service. The most expensive blade I carry is a $50 S&W rescue knife, which I got before the Gerber one was available or I would have that one instead. There is such a great risk of breaking, losing, or otherwise destroying my personal tools that I am hesitant to take something too[ nice and be out my hard earned money.

Something else to consider for the knife is a good glassbreaker. That is an invaluable tool (plus if I am going to carry something, I want it to serve at least 2 purposes).

I really like your idea of making it non-conductive or insulated. At first I was thinking that in a fire, I would generally rely on a different tool rather than my knife when breaching walls, cutting wires, etc., but on an extrication you never know when you'll hit a hot wire these days! Especially on a hybrid or smart car. My rescue knife has a rounded tip so I can pry with it or cut a seatbelt without poking the patient, and if I pry into a panel that has live wires running to it, zaaaap. Plus, if I fall through a floor or become trapped in a collapse, I may find myself with only the tools in my pockets to get out (anything in my hands may be ripped away), in which case a knife may indeed be needed to help breach a wall.

Experience has also taught me that anything hanging on my gear (as opposed to being in a pocket) is waiting to get lost! I clip my knives to the inside of my pockets like you would your jeans pockets, and I also have some special pocket inserts that are designed to hold tools and keep them in the ready position. I have some sharp stuff secured to them as well.

At any rate, the knife you are describing would be awesome, and I would surely jones for it, but I don't know that I could convince myself to pay for it and risk losing it! Course, if you make one and need a tester for the prototype... :D Seriously, you do have some great ideas there, so please don't take my post negatively, just sharing my little opinion. I'm sure there are others that feel differently than me!

Oh, and as far as serrations, my rescue knife has some rather large serrations. Think more like waves than saw teeth. It makes short work of webbing, clothing, seatbelts, etc. That coupled with a rounded tip make a pretty versatile knife for what I'm doing. It also has a spring loaded punch in the handle for breaking glass.

Ok, so I've re-read your post a few times now, and I keep coming up with the fact that it would be a pretty sweet knife but just a bit too expensive for me. If there was a way to make it and slash the prices, you would probably sell a million of them. Maybe make it so that you can only order it at a discounted price if you provide a letter from your dept. that you are an active FF or something? I don't know. Man, you got me thinking now :D I may come back to this thread later with some ideas hehe.

BTW, the wife has hinted around that I may be getting an orange handled Zing for XMAS to carry in my station clothes!
 
Yah got me thinkin now ( really dangerous!). Have never taken a MUDD apart - but bought a RAM mainly just to see how that lock worked. Assuming that the MUDD's about the same - wonder if the entire handle couldn't be cast out of plastic of some suitably high tech and maybe even high performance sort? Non-conductive from the get go. .Agree with you that Hybrid cars are going to present some challenges plus as more folks try and get at least partially off the grid - electricity is going to be showing up in places no one expects it to be.
Maybe borrow a idea from the firearms field and just press/adhere a oversize washer on each side of the handles for the pivot area - like the frame rails on a Glock or Walther 99?
If a new handle's in the works - maybe cast a bottle wrench into the end of it?Size isn't much of a consideration here (within reasonable limits) - concealment isn't a design goal for this tool."Plastic" might yield a significant savings in weight?
And to your basic point - price - this might allow the knife to be made at a price point that is still pretty reasonable.I really do get your point that this has to be selling for tool money - not weapon bucks.As weapons/utility tools - the ZT's are pretty reasonable in terms of price.Straight ahead utility tools need to sell for a chunk less.
 
Whew, I'm glad I didn't come off like a jerk, I really hate having discussions like this via typed words because you can't tell someone's tone.

I agree with you, $100 or so isn't bad for something I'm going to carry and use every day, but for a tool it is a bit stiff for me, and in all likelyhood by the time it was insulated, etc. we'd be looking at $300 IMHO. Also as far as heat resistive, some level is needed but your basic heavier plastics do ok. If I'm in deep enough without a hose for protection that I have to worry about my equipment failing and my tools metling, I've got bigger problems anyway (it is amazing what a difference a hoseline can make in keeping heat off you... the water stream on the types of nozzle we use actually busts the water up into tiny droplets, which absorb the heat).

My dept's SOP is to immediately take control of the utilities at a house; find the breakers and flip the main to kill power to the house. Usually that will take care of any worries about charged lines. Of course, that is assuming the homeowner hasn't done his own wiring and bypassed the box, or solar power, or a commercial bldg, etc., so I really like your idea of being non-conductive. Hybrid cars are going to continue to be a danger for us for a long time until there is some level of 'standardization'. Currently some run their power cables through the floors, some through the doors, some through the roof, etc. It is nuts. I have a special all plastic tool that I carry to pry with that will help, but I won't lie, the knife gets its fair share too :D

Size and weight aren't critical, but a lighter weight will help some people. Our gear is anywhere from 50-75 lbs empty (between turnout gear and airpack) and even worse loaded and/or wet. Personally I don't worry about tool weight, I just train with it and get used to it. I'd rather get a little tougher and have something I'll need in a pinch than wish I had something but left becuase it was too heavy (take that with a grain of salt, I'm not going to carry cinderblocks just cause!)

As far as pressing an oxygen wrench into the handle, that is not really neccessary. The newer style bottles have a handle built into them, and I think w/in the next 5 years or so that will be a requirement for all of them. Most of us carry multitools anyway, so we would have pliers in a worst case scenario.

Your idea of the oversized washers is pretty good too. Function over form for sure. I make a habit of checking my personal tools on a fairly regular basis, but there are times when we have so much other stuff to do, that it will have to wait until I have the time/energy. There are lots of times where my tools will get put away wet and dirty and have to sit for a few days until I get back to work to deal with them. Something with a good design that won't jam would be priceless.

You really have lots of good ideas here, too bad there aren't other FF's around to chime in. I'm still fairly new to this in the grand scheme of things, and can only speak for my own opinions. I'm enjoying our conversation though.
 
Yes it does, but it isn't a Kershaw :D The biggest turnoff to me for the Gerber Hinderer is the lack of a blunted tip. I really like that on a rescue knife.
 
I worked at a fire department for about fire years when though a ton of knives. I carried a multi tool on my belt and after many different knives I found a Boa to be the best in my opinion. the flipper works good with the gloves. Its heavy enough not to fall out of your pocket easliy..... when the hoses got leaks or busted we would pile them up after we got a bunch the chief would get us to cut off the connectors... If you want to test how good a blade is start cutting 1 3/4 and 1 1/2 double jacketed fire hose. it seperates the boys from the men.
 
Im not sure i would want a folder at all while on scene, they take too long to fumble with. i have a glas-master RTIII on my gear, it is the toughest thing ive ever seen. it cut seatbelts with ease, ive pried doors open with it, and can cut the windsheild out of a car in about 90 seconds.

kind of hard to beat. i have two of them.
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o and i have the rescue blur too, and love it, but that is for off duty..
 
The CRKT/McGowan MAK-1 is definitely worth a look. Not a firefighter - but carry one in my vehicle 'cause it's such a useful prying/choping tool.
 
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