Mules: what's the theoretical difference between Elmax and Cruwear?

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Between Elmax and Cruwear, which is supposed to have longer wear? Are there close approximations of each in more well known steel? For example, could someone say that Elmax should perform sort of like (random examples here) D2, or A2, or s30v, etc. ?

At the size of the Mules, I'm more interested in wear resistance than other factors. I've got an S90v Mule, how should Elmax and Cruwear compare?
 
The Edge-U-Cation sheet for Cruwear said it was a relative of D2, harder than D2. But D2 is supposed to oxidize gracefully while Cruwear not so much.

So far I'm really liking my Elmax mule. It's fun to use in the kitchen and I also do some trimming of stray bush on a forest trail I walk. No damage to the edge whatsoever. Both my CTS-XHP millie and a S30V strider MFS took damage on my forest walks... but maybe my sharpening skills have improved since then :o

edit: I'm keen also to know more about these steels!
 
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Cruwear isn't related to D2. It's tougher, has greater wear resistance, better edge stability but it's correct that it isn't as corrosion resistant as D2. Rurouni, Cruwear would be tougher than S30V, but S30V should be tough enough if you go up to 40-45 dregrees , or even 50 if needed. If that still isn't enough than you might consider a different tool.

Comparing Cruwear to elmax is just guesses. I have several knives in both but haven't done any scientific type comparisons. My guesses are toughness- Cruwear, though Elmax is very tough for stainless. Tougher than S30V IMO. Wear resistance- tough call. It would depend on hardness IMO. Corrosion- Elmax. No comparison there.

Remember these are just guesses.
 
Hey Mastiff, always good to come across your posts here and over on spyderco.com :) Yeah, I think my angle was too aggressive on the millie and strider. I was using waterstones and loaded strop (after watching virtuovice's channel) and having a heck of a time getting sharp edges. Now I've added sharpmaker to the fray and it's helped out a lot. Also I'm "actively learning" how-to and how-not-to use a knife... I think my MFS chipped when I used it to chop some arbutus wood to take home with me. Nasty chips... but part of the enjoyment is pushing the boundaries. I'll think twice next time. I have very limited personal experience myself but from what I read it seems like one of S30V's main downfall is lack of toughness.

Oh, about Cruwear being similar to D2 I pulled from here:
http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=703

Spyderco Mule Team 12

Spyderco's twelfth Mule Team Project installment features American-made steel called Cru-Wear. Upstate New York's Crucible Steel manufacturers Cru-Wear which is very similar to Vascowear, a steel used by Gerber Legendary Blades in many of their past production knives.

Cru-Wear is a high-performance "V" tool steel that is difficult to process making it challenging for knife manufacturers to work with. It follows the same high-alloy, metallurgical tool-steel recipe used to produce D2, but with greater levels of vanadium, tungsten and molybdenum. It is air-hardened and worked in a cold state. Cru-Wear exhibits exceptional toughness, impact resistance and hardness for exceptional edge retention and is the first tool steel offering in Spyderco's Mule Team Series.
Click to expand...


To me Elmax seems easier to sharpen than Cruwear.
 
To me Elmax seems easier to sharpen than Cruwear.
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Yes, that's a good call. I feel it is too. IMO, the PM steels seem to sharpen easier than ingot steels. At the same hardness I feel like D2 is tougher to sharpen than CPM D2. I don't know why as it doesn't really seem to lower abrasive wear resistance compared to the ingot steel of the same( pretty darn close actually) composition and hardness. Finer edges are easier to get with the really clean, smaller carbide size powder steels.


OTOH Some makers won't use CPM D2. It's not really for the higher costs so much as it is the carbides are easier to control and get the larger carbides D2 is known for. These are the knives traditionally used for skinning where the large carbides help in slicing. So I've had a couple of professional knifemakers tell me. I personally like CPM D2.

Elmax seems to be about as clean a steel as I've encountered. It's a high wear vanadium steel that doesn't mind very high polishes and does well at 8K and higher, which is as high as I took it. It took as nice an edge as I've seen in that class steel.

One's an American steel, the other isn't. That might be the most important difference to some.
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Yeah Paul. Everybody is different. I'd like to think that needs drives choices but it's not always that logical. There is room for emotions too. :)

:)
 
Both steels would do great for what you want. As for which one can hold its edge longer, I'd bet it'd be CruWear if it was hardened above 62, though Elmax is no slouch.

Elmax is very underrated, or maybe just overshadowed by M390. I really like it. I wish I had more knives in it.

CPM CruWear has a large fan base. It's one of those steels that can be used for any knife, it's very versatile.
 
The OP asked for advice over 3 years ago.

MY interest, however, is current as I am looking at a CPM Cru-Wear knife and thank you for the input.
 
Thomas Linton said:
The OP asked for advice over 3 years ago.

MY interest, however, is current as I am looking at a CPM Cru-Wear knife and thank you for the input.
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Ah crap.. Haha I didn't even look. One thing to realize is you really don't hear of anyone outright hating on CruWear. It's a well loved steel because it really doesn't have any faults(unless you count not being stainless).

If a knife running CruWear peaks your interest I'd go for it. The steel definitely won't disappoint you.
 
Both good steel. Elmax has a higher wear resistance but cruware has better edge stability and toughness. Tho this could change based on heat treatment between the two.

The op was from 2012 and the bumped post asked..

Thomas Linton said:
By "wear" do you mean abrasion resistance?
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Lol
 
Elmax is pretty tough for stainless, it’s a great stainless steel that doesn’t compromise except some wear resistance when compared to other wear resistant stainless steels like M390 & S110v.
Both Cruwear and Elmax are great steels they aren’t the toughest, or have the greatest wear resistance, but they make great folders :thumbsup:
 
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Rurouni said:
Hey Mastiff, always good to come across your posts here and over on spyderco.com :) Yeah, I think my angle was too aggressive on the millie and strider. I was using waterstones and loaded strop (after watching virtuovice's channel) and having a heck of a time getting sharp edges. Now I've added sharpmaker to the fray and it's helped out a lot. Also I'm "actively learning" how-to and how-not-to use a knife... I think my MFS chipped when I used it to chop some arbutus wood to take home with me. Nasty chips... but part of the enjoyment is pushing the boundaries. I'll think twice next time. I have very limited personal experience myself but from what I read it seems like one of S30V's main downfall is lack of toughness.

Oh, about Cruwear being similar to D2 I pulled from here:
http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=703




To me Elmax seems easier to sharpen than Cruwear.
Click to expand...

What was the angle that you used that you think was too aggressive?
 
Check out: http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=cruwear,Elmax, s30v, 20cv&hrn=1&gm=0

Below is the elemental comparison, with 20CV (aka M390) and 1095 thrown in for reference.

My personal experience with CruWear is entirely positive (based on my limited sample of a KC Manix 2); I would be excited to buy a knife with the steel again, given the chance. I've been using and carrying that Manix on and off since January, and it hasn't discolored or patina'd at all. While I haven't performed anything resembling a scientific test on edge holding or toughness, my feeling about the steal (relative to, say 154cm or S30V) is that it seems to hold its edge really well, is easy to touch up (I've used a fine DMT diamond and/or a strop -- I haven't had to thoroughly resharpen it yet!), and, despite my efforts to cause any kind of chip or roll in the edge (lots of fire prep in the woods this summer), it stays sharp and just comes back for more.

I cannot speak to Elmax, and my read on knife steal trends in the last couple years is that it has largely gotten lost under M390/C20V craze these past couple years. Perhaps for good reason, perhaps just because we all love the latest & greatest! It is chemically similar to M390 (another Bohler-Uddeholm product), and the site quoted from suggests that they are similar in performance.

Cheers!

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