Multi-part newbie question(s)

C

cgdavid

Joined
Sep 12, 2005
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Working on my first "from the ground up" blade. The blade is OF steel and came out not to bad. So I decided to finish it out.

Question....

If I drill/pin/peen the brass guard on should I also silver solder the blade-to guard seam? There is not visible gap but the guard still is loose enough to move fairly freely. My main concern is if the knife gets used, moister might find its way between the blade/guard and rust.

If I do solder, should flux be applied to the entire blade-to-guard surface in hopes that the solder penetrated fully or should I just put flux where the guard and blade meet and apply a "gusset" of solder.

Thanks...Curt
 
Try peening the bolster again with a 4 pound hammer. I cant give you advise on the soldering but I know that a 4 pound hammer squashes rivets pretty good :)

What type of steel is it? That may have something to do with what type of solder you need.............if you go that route.
 
blgoode

The blade is an old file probably W something steel. The guard is brass. The solder I have on hand is the Stay-Brite solder kit bought from Texas Knifemaker Supply a couple years back.

The guard is slotted so it wraps around three sides of the blade.

The joint is tight enough so its not really visible - good enough fo me. My only concern is water getting in between and rusting. Seems like I read somewhere a long ways back that solder and peened rivits don't get along - not sure why though.

Thanks...Curt
 
what if you solder it from the side that the handle will be on and then use the heat to pull the soldier twords the blade?
Better get some advise from others on this one :D
 
Soldering the guard is a good idea.If the guard is tight and solid,you can flow super glue in the joint to keep out moisture.Read up on soldering guards. Remember,it does not take a huge flame or a lot of heat to solder on a guard.Go slow,get everything CLEAN,flux well,heat gently.
 
To add to what Stacy said, heat from the handle side to pull the solder from the face of the guard toward the handle. Personally, with a good fit like you describe I usually just seal with epoxy (JB Weld). The rivits will hold the guard sufficiently in place and epoxy is much easier to clean up than solder. Of course, this comes from all my horror experiences soldering stuff. What a freakin mess I make. I think my own problem is not getting the metals clean enough, but I can't seem to learn how to do it right every time. I'm not a fan of soldering, can you tell? :D But I am a fan of JB Weld. Thing is, I haven't had enough knives in the field long enough to know whether this holds up well...

Edited to add, Terry Primos has a very good tutorial on his site on soldering guards.
 
I know jb weld is just about as strong as low-heat (~400 deg) solder if surface prep is done right. Just kind of forgot about it. thanks for the reminder.
 
This is very interesting.
I have been nervous about soldering guards because I did it once and it was, well, @^&#$!! Totally messed the job up. So I glued the next one but felt very guilty because I thought I was cheating.
You guys have set me free!! :D
A word about solder though, even if you do it right, I have read on these forums that there is always a possibility of "sweating" or "oozing" months later. So how good an idea is it to solder if you have a good fit?
Thanks,
Mike
 
From my days in metalwork at school and trying it in later life, you can't silver solder brass, only braze it. (unless terminology is different in the US). Silver solder won't stick to brass, just roll off.
 
Andrew, this is not the silver solder that we used in metalwork. It does in fact work well on brass but it is too difficult to get a thin bead and it is a nightmare to clean afterwards. Also, you need too much heat and will probably draw the temper on the blade.
The solder in question has about 5% silver and 95% tin, (i think) and it has a much lower melting temp. :)
 
miden said:
Andrew, this is not the silver solder that we used in metalwork. It does in fact work well on brass but it is too difficult to get a thin bead and it is a nightmare to clean afterwards. Also, you need too much heat and will probably draw the temper on the blade.
The solder in question has about 5% silver and 95% tin, (i think) and it has a much lower melting temp. :)
Click to expand...

Oh, OK, it was just that the OP said

should I also silver solder the blade-to guard seam?

In England silver solder is the stuff that you join wires to a printed circuit board using an electric soldering iron, and hard solder or braze is what you join bicycle frames with. Hard solder is effected with borax flux and a gas torch and sets with a look like brass.

I like your knife work BTW.
 
Andrew Taylor said:
Oh, OK, it was just that the OP said

should I also silver solder the blade-to guard seam?

In England silver solder is the stuff that you join wires to a printed circuit board using an electric soldering iron, and hard solder or braze is what you join bicycle frames with. Hard solder is effected with borax flux and a gas torch and sets with a look like brass.

I like your knife work BTW.
Click to expand...

Over here in the colonies, we refer to the "hard solder" as "silver-solder" because it typically has some silver content. Braze is what you would solder bike frames together with, using borax and a brass rod.
 
Andrew, I was not being snotty about the solder thing.
Thanks for the compliment about my knife and thanks for posting your comment when I showed it.
To further confuse you about solder, over here I think they use lead solder for circuit boards, silver solder will just never work with a soldering iron, not nearly enough heat.

Should you solder the guard? I honestly do not know old boy, I was hoping for a reply to that as well, as I said, I have read that it can "bleed" flux later.
I hope someone will advise us on that one.
Try this link, it may help you. Just go to the section on solder. This whole site has some really good info.
http://www.engnath.com/public/manframe.htm

I think it may be better to pay a lot of attention to the fit of the guard so that you can eliminate the need to use solder and just use the epoxy to seal it from moisture and ultimately the big enemy of steel, rust! The more stainless the steel is, the less it seems to like solder.

The old file that cgdavid used for his knife is high carbon with no chrome to speak of so it will definitely rust.

My 2 cents worth. Good luck,

Mike :)
 
Sine I las posted, I drilled and pinned the guard. After looking at it close, there was a little too much gap. I concidered thinning a little JB weld and flowing in in th gap but really wanted to try soldering. Since it is an old file, not much to loose.

Used a q-tip to apply flux along the seam. It flowed in nicely. Applied a heat-asorbing paste to contain the heat then using a mini propane torch, heated from the handle side of the guard applying the solder on the blade side. The solder went completely aound the guard even though I applied it to one side. Touched just a little on the other side to build up the fillet a little.

Cleanup was nothing more than using a small file to remove a little excess beaded up solder on the handle side. The flux turned the brass pink which cleaned right up with 0000 steel wool - ready for final shaping and finish. I'll keep you posted on the bleeding flux issue.

The next time I do this, I think I'll bevel on the guard slot on the blade side a little. Also will watch the amount of solder applied a little closer. This may make cleanup easier. Basically, it takes practice to know when to stop applying solder.
 
Good for you Curt.
What solder and what flux did you use?
Happy to hear that it worked so well. I read somewhere that it is necessary to neutralize the flux somehow because it can be a bit corrosive or am I thinking of something else? :confused:

Mike
 
Thanks Jeff and Mike. no offence taken, I realise that terms on this side of the Atlantic are different from the UK, so I am just trying to learn them all. I still find the engine of my car under the bonnet and put my shopping in the boot :)


Yes, silver solder is tin and lead.

Borax flux is acidic, you could neutralise with Bicarb.
 
Yes, and you put your rubbish in a dustbin eh? :D
I am from South Africa which was also a colony, after 9 years I still have problems with the terminology sometimes and draw puzzled stares.....The first day I got here I rented a car and took off straight into the oncoming traffic! :eek: The culture shock is big but the Canucks are okay.
Good luck.

Mike
 
Miden

Used Stay-Clean flux. I had an older kit from TKMS but decided to use a newer one. The old one had a no-name flux which may have been just fine but the ingredience in the flux had settled out so the new one got used instead.

Glued the spacers on and drilled handle pin holes lastnight. Just glued one side of the handle and hope to get assembly done befroe hitting the sack tonight.

Even if this knife turns out to be junk, it still will be a good practice and a little fun.
 
Curt, thanks for the flux info.
Please post a pic of your finished product, nothing is junk if you made it with your hands and put a bit of your heart into it.
How did you grind the blade anyway? :thumbup:
regards,

Mike
 
Mike

Ground it with an angle grinder for rough work and finished it with a woodworking belt grinder mounted in a vice. The finish work was done with a block and sandpaper and a buffing wheel in the drill press.

I didn't draw the hardness out of the blade - ground it hard then, put heat paste along the blade bevel and then in a shallow pan of water and softened the back of the blade and handle. A file still won't touch the edge. It will probably be a bear to sharpen - cross that bridge when I get to it....

I'll try to find a digital camera. It's one of the few toys I don't have...That, and a cell phone...boy, I really am behind the times....
 
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