Multi Part Scales

KnuckleDownKnives

KnuckleDownKnives

Time to make the doughnuts..
Joined
Feb 12, 2015
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Can someone point me in the right direction on doing multi part scales? Tutorials, WIP's, videos..

Handles such as this one Josh81 did.

Do you need to use pins to go through all the pieces? I'm sure it's probable better to pin everything. If so how do you get everything lined up when drilling? What size/type pins?

josh81 said:
5654c866997c6fc804539dcbc5dec1ba.jpg
Click to expand...
 
I may be wrong, as I have never done a multi piece handle...yet...:) but It should be similar to mating a liner to a hand slab, only in multiple layers. Glue up the materials, let cure, cut to shape then mount as one would a regular single piece handle.
 
I personally don't pin them. I could see the advantage though. The only time I've had any trouble was when using metal as a space. I use CA glue to assemble them and the metal creates too much heat when worked for the CA to hold up. Had to start over and be a little more careful. I'm sure somebody with more insight will come along. Hope that helps!

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josh81 said:
I personally don't pin them. I could see the advantage though. The only time I've had any trouble was when using metal as a space. I use CA glue to assemble them and the metal creates too much heat when worked for the CA to hold up. Had to start over and be a little more careful. I'm sure somebody with more insight will come along. Hope that helps!

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Click to expand...

That's what I ran into last night making a set with copper spacers. Didn't last 3 seconds once I put it to the grinder. Even just lightly. Fell right apart, using Bob Smiths epoxy.

Thanks Josh.
 
Ya I've been there. It's frustrating for sure. I'm curious to see what others have done.

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I will make some comments about the knife scales on the knife you posted the pic of. First of all, I'm pretty sure that that maker started with a scale of the honeycomb metal (probably aluminum) and resin and then the wood middle piece. A couple things he did with those parts which I like and usually do myself is that the three parts and the middle spacers pieces in white, (probably white paper) are all assembled and glued to a base liner--this methodology helps a multi material scale like this one stay together. I personally glue the large pieces to the spacer-vertical liner and then glue that 3 piece (5 counting liner spacers) to the horizontal liner material. I use epoxy for all parts of this assembly, and for the overall scale I clamp as needed and then use a heavy steel block to hold the hole thing down onto the horizontal liner material and give it plenty of time-usually some extra time from epoxy curing time til I remove the steel block and whatever clamps I had in place. I then keep shaping to the minimum reasonable until I have the scales glued and pinned to my blade. I have a couple of knives currently underway where the scales are curing and are actually ready to be attached to the blades they are going onto that are 2 piece versions of a scale quite similar to the one you posted the pic of. One of my favorite scale vendors is Knifescales on Instagram--it's run by Brian at Ruh's Woodshop. Check out some of these pics on his Instagram site: https://www.instagram.com/knifescales/ If you can find one you like it's worth getting in touch with him to produce what you're after IMO.

Good Luck--Don
 
I don't pin them anymore.

hKnEMEk.jpg


I am going to build myself a window style clamping jig though, to make beveled joints easier to clamp up.
 
Problem I'm having though is it not holding together. I'm using curly poplar, a copper spacer, a 1/2" piece of dark wood, another copper spacer, and then another curly poplar. Soon as I grind for a second the copper gets so hot the epoxy lets loose. Basically just like the image in my OP but metal spacers. I guess I could simply glue it all to a liner, but it still seems it would be better to have some sort of mechanical connection other than glue.
 
Ax far as making a three strip handle like the knife shown ( ignoring the honeycomb pattern), this is one basic procedure:

Cut the handle material in blocks that are about 1" thick. Let's say you want curly maple with a stripe of blackwood running diagonally through it, with red spacers on the joints.

Mark the maple block side at the desired angle and saw on the line. Sand the cuts dead flat and square. A disc sander with a 90 degree table is great for this. Laminate two strips of the spacers on each cut side. CA works great for this task. Sand the spacer pieces flush with the block sides.

Cut the ebony block at the angle of the maple pieces. If you don't cut it at angles, the grain will be wrong. Sand the ebony strip flat on the mating angled sides and check alignment. The blocks should line up evenly. Epoxy the three pieces together, using rubber bands and pieces of steel or wood blocks to hold things in alignment while the resin cures overnight.

After the epoxy is secured. Flatten the assembly to make the sides flat and flush.

Saw the block into a set of scales. Flatten the scales gently with a coarse belt ( this gives a rough surface for the next step).

Laminate each scale on a red liner with epoxy. Only clamp with enough pressure to hold them snug - don't over-clamp.
Make sure you have the scales as left and right angles when gluing up.

Trim the scales as needed and assemble the handle as normal, using one pin through each section. For strength, Corby bolts are really good. They come in small head sizes that look like standard pins when sanded down. If using a mosaic rivet in the center section, Corby bolts are a really good idea.
 
pleasanthill said:
Problem I'm having though is it not holding together. I'm using curly poplar, a copper spacer, a 1/2" piece of dark wood, another copper spacer, and then another curly poplar. Soon as I grind for a second the copper gets so hot the epoxy lets loose. Basically just like the image in my OP but metal spacers. I guess I could simply glue it all to a liner, but it still seems it would be better to have some sort of mechanical connection other than glue.
Click to expand...

Copper is going to make it real tough. It doesn't stick well to adhesives to begin with in my opinion and it transfers heat to the glue joint *right now* and kills it. I only use it as liners or stacked spacers.

The additional mechanical fastener I use for the "bolster" portion is to make sure it's pinned to the knife too.
 
Quick and dirty model. A frame, like a window frame, with tapped holes for screws to clamp the pieces against each other and into the opposing corner. The bottom is white because I was going to use a UHMW cutting board or something on the bottom so epoxy wouldn't stick. Then you can use a couple quick clamps or spring clamps over the whole thing for down force against the cutting board.

lruJpIY.jpg
 
When I built my scales I didn't have any problem with them staying together. Ofocurse the materials were a little different also. I used T-88 epoxy on it all. I actually couldn't break them apart by hand. I scuffed the surfaces well and drilled little dimples along the surface and through he red liner. I made sure though the dimples and holes were closer to the back of the scale and away from the sides so when shaping I wouldn't hit one. Then I just clamped it all together on a piece of granite real tight.


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