Muscrat redux: building the ultimate 3.9" blade length class folding fighter...

[Jim March]

In the top-left corner of pretty much every BF screen is a pic of the Sifu, a design that was more or less concieved and pushed for right here on BF.

It was one of the two ideas I've been pushing for in a folder since before BF even started.

The other idea is the Muscrat. It's a 19th-century fighting folder using identical lockblades opening in opposite directions. Blades should be no more than 3.9" so that the grip length isn't crazy.

The idea is to use reverse-grip and forward-grip simultaneously, or transition so fast it's practically invisible. Your opponent can't figure which style to defend against, and the intimidation value is extreme.

3.9" "Tactical folders" are a dime a dozen. CRKT, Outdoor Edge and many others make good ones priced in the $50 - $75 dollar range at only slight discount; by "doubling one up" you'd double the price and perhaps just a bit more for the "wierdness value". A "double Impulse" would be close to perfect in the $130 range.

For any "sub-4inch" legal climate, you'd have the nastiest critter on the street.

The best "initial platforms" would be something that's already pretty thin, such as an EDI Genesis2, Spydie Military or what have you. Now we're into the $200 range but that's still not crazy.

First question is, would something like this sell? Second, can it be made at a reasonable price?

I the answer to both is "yes". I was right about the Sifu

.

Design notes: the whole thing needs to "gently curve" rather than look like a "double-pointed straight stick". While holding the forward-pointing blade straight at somebody, you want the reverse blade to hook somewhat down.

It's also possible to mix blade types. A CRKT Seahawk hawksbill blade in the reverse combined with an Apache conventional blade in the forward grip would be a nasty combo. It might not be practical due to different grip shapes needed for each blade and if so, fine. Identical will work great too.

Come on...SOMEBODY build a Muscrat

!

Jim

 

[Cougar Allen]

It wouldn't be just a fighter, either. Even with identical blades it would be useful for jobs that otherwise require stopping in the middle to resharpen (or finishing with a dull knife).

A Muskrat with a sharp blade and a serrated blade would combine the best of both worlds, instead of combining the worst of both in one partially serrated blade. Even people who hate serrations would buy that -- even the most fanatical serration-haters (such as me) admit they are good for some purposes. A 4" fully serrated blade is long enough to be useful.

A Muskrat would be worth more than two single-bladed knives to the user -- much more convenient to carry and to change blades, too.

I'm going to have to speak to the Cistern about this ... I've already got the Knife Gods' blessing for a folding sword (there isn't any commandment "Thou shalt not fold thy sword) and I think the Knife Gods might not consider a Muskrat to be a violation of the commandment either. Especially if you don't fold both blades ... whether they both can fold or not is immaterial....

-Cougar Allen :{)
Fanatical Cult Leader

 

[Stryver]

I would not be interested in a two-bladed fighter. I think there are enough useful things to do with a knife that they needn't me marketed as weapons of destruction. I am also not quite naive enough to believe that capitalism will ever let go of this selling point.

That said, I would like a nice, two bladed folder with a secure locking mechanism. I've seen one or two out there, and believe that spyderco actually made a opposite bladed lockback, though they did not market it for combat.

As far as the folding sword, that is something I may be interested in as well...

Can you make me a mock-up in Rattan

Oh wait, they won't let you have jointed sticks... bummer...


Stryver

 

[MattM]

A couple years back in a old Issue of Fighting Knives, There was a Muskrat with matching Spyderco Civillan serrated blades.
I think Paul Tsaugis built it.
Does anyone remember this?
I think it was the 1993 NewYork cutlery show issue.

 

[RH]

ha, ha ! Jim March, I remeber your Muskrat rants from 'the other' forum. I actually was beginning to wonder when you'd bring it up again (seriously !). Didn't you once epoxy two Spyderco SS handled-folders together as a prototype ? I agree that the idea is just as natural as a three-bladed stockman, especially with different edge types/shapes. The marketing would need to be tame, though. No Boker-esque ads. I have a knife idea too. I'll post it in another thread, tell me what you think.

 

[James Mattis]

Spyderco has a "standard size" Dyad in the works - basically combining a plain edge Delica type blade with a Rescue Jr. Sal does not recommend using it as a double-ended fighter. Having a complete plain edge and a complete serrated edge in the same knife seems like a nice convenience to me, something to carry even in a perfectly peaceful world. I'm thinking that thumb studs might be better in that configuration than blade holes, to eliminate the humps and make the grip more "natural" when using it in the normal one-blade-at-a-time working mode.


------------------
- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001

 

[RLR]

"Soon we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi - soon we will have our revenge."

Darth Maul

 

[Burke]

How's this gonna open? No automatics please. I'm thinking maybe a very weak detent, so that you can "shake" the handle up, then down, to open the blades.

 

[Jim March]

No argument with the various peaceful uses. In fact, a sheepsfoot for the reverse-grip side would be fine.

But there is a small but steady market in "gonzo fighters". Even Spyderco made the Civilian although they seldom admit it

and we all know about the Sifu.

Jim

 

[leroys_45]

I can see definite use for the concept. I also want to BTTT since it needs input if it is ever going to happen.

I thought about this for a few days and this is what i've come up with. Make the first blade much like a BM 710. The rear blade would be something like a full serrated MT kestrel, a little hook, but not too much. I was thinking of making it a frame lock. There might not be enough to make two lock bars however. There should be 3 handle slabs. The center would contain both lock bars and that is the only potention problem. It would be fairly thin overall and you could use either blade fairly conventionally. I'll have to do some drawings to illustrate.

 

[Cougar Allen]

I still think the good old clasp lock is one of the best. It would be particularly good for a muskrat fighter because it doesn't just eliminate one one unlocking button you have to be careful to avoid when you grip the knife; it eliminates two of them. It would make the knife simple to make, too -- the simplest design would be just one backspring with an unlocking cam at each end -- or a picklock design with no cams would be even simpler.

I have spoken to the Cistern and I have been vouchsafed an answer to my theological dilemma -- I think I'll post about that in the Community forum later.

I don't want a sheepsfoot blade; I want to have points on both ends. However, a Warnecliffe on one end and a straight spine on the other would have advantages. If one blade is serrated make it the Warnecliffe.

I was thinking about going over to the Spyderco forum and harrassing Sal, but James has a point ... maybe thumb studs or disks would be better than holes. If not Spyderco who should we target with our lobbying? Another of the factories or should we start with a custom maker?

-Cougar Allen :{)
Fanatical Cult Leader