Mustard Patina

A

adubbz

Joined
Nov 24, 2011
Messages
186
So...I've searched for this...and read some things about it, but none of them are very in-depth.

Can you do this on ANY steel? I'm thinking no...but I'm not to sure. Like could I do it on one of my cheapo 8CR13MoV knives?

Do you use a lot or a little mustard? How long do you leave it on?

Can any one help me out a bit? or maybe link me to something I missed?

Thanks,
Adubbz
 
I doubt the vinegar content in mustard would do much on 8Cr13MoV, or most other stainless steels either. I think some have used pure vinegar to some effect, on some stainless, maybe in combination with high heat (boiling), which accelerates the reaction. But even then, it would likely take much longer than with non-stainless steels, IF it works at all. Most folks here, who've put a 'patina' on stainless, have done so with a much more aggressive acid, like ferric chloride, which is a dedicated metal etchant (and dangerous to work with).

Stainless steels are generally much more resistant to the effects of acidic foods anyway (mustard, fruits, vinegar, etc.), by designed purpose.
 
Generally you need a carbon (non stainless) steel for a patina. I believe steel is stainless with it has more than 10% chromium?
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
I doubt the vinegar content in mustard would do much on 8Cr13MoV, or most other stainless steels either. I think some have used pure vinegar to some effect, on some stainless, maybe in combination with high heat (boiling), which accelerates the reaction. But even then, it would likely take much longer than with non-stainless steels, IF it works at all. Most folks here, who've put a 'patina' on stainless, have done so with a much more aggressive acid, like ferric chloride, which is a dedicated metal etchant (and dangerous to work with).

Stainless steels are generally much more resistant to the effects of acidic foods anyway (mustard, fruits, vinegar, etc.), by designed purpose.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. So...if you excuse me for being a noob, what steels are people typically doing this to?

...and I..feel really dumb for asking this, What is the difference between the stainless and the other steels? More carbon in the other steels?
 
Chris Pierce said:
Generally you need a carbon (non stainless) steel for a patina. I believe steel is stainless with it has more than 10% chromium?
Click to expand...

Woah..thanks...That's exactly what I wanted to know...and exactly what I just asked 'obsessed'. Haha Thanks for reading my mind. So any of the more expensive common blade steels are carbon steel aren't they? VG10? S30V? CPM154?
 
adubbz said:
Thanks for the reply. So...if you excuse me for being a noob, what steels are people typically doing this to?

...and I..feel really dumb for asking this, What is the difference between the stainless and the other steels? More carbon in the other steels?
Click to expand...

So-called 'stainless steels' always will have at least ~12% chromium in the alloy (definition of 'stainless steel' varies a percentage point or two in chromium content, but in the 12% ballpark). Some are much higher at 16-18% (440A/B/C, for example). Some 'non-stainless' steels, like D2, are very nearly there at ~11% or so, but not quite; it'll sometimes take a little bit of patina. Most true 'non-stainless' steels will be much, much lower in chromium content, often less than 1%, if any at all. For example, 1095 is a very, very popular steel for applying patina; it has no chromium at all. Case's 'CV' steel (for 'chrome vanadium'), has a little bit, maybe around 0.65% or less. Still not nearly enough to call 'stainless', and many CV fans like to patina those blades.

The 8Cr13MoV steel you referred to, has ~13% chromium (indicated by the 'Cr13' in the name). The '8' in the name refers to 0.8% carbon content, the 'Mo' refers to molybdenum, and the 'V' indicates vanadium in the alloy.


David
 
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adubbz said:
Woah..thanks...That's exactly what I wanted to know...and exactly what I just asked 'obsessed'. Haha Thanks for reading my mind. So any of the more expensive common blade steels are carbon steel aren't they? VG10? S30V? CPM154?
Click to expand...

Those are all stainless steels, but do contain high amounts of carbon and other alloying elements which contribute greatly to their reputation for edge-holding (carbon), and wear-resistance (vanadium; much more so in S30V, less so in VG10 and CPM-154), as well as toughness/impact-resistance (molybdenum).

For reference, as to their 'stainless' character:
VG-10 --> 14.5-15.5% chromium
S30V --> 14% chromium
CPM-154 --> 14% chromium


David
 
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Obsessed with Edges said:
So-called 'stainless steels' always will have at least ~12% chromium in the alloy (definition of 'stainless steel' varies a percentage point or two in chromium content, but in the 12% ballpark). Some are much higher at 16-18% (440A/B/C, for example). Some 'non-stainless' steels, like D2, are very nearly there at ~11% or so, but not quite; it'll sometimes take a little bit of patina. Most true 'non-stainless' steels will be much, much lower in chromium content, often less than 1%, if any at all. For example, 1095 is a very, very popular steel for applying patina; it has no chromium at all. Case's 'CV' steel (for 'chrome vanadium'), has a little bit, maybe around 0.65% or less. Still not nearly enough to call 'stainless', and many CV fans like to patina those blades.

The 8Cr13MoV steel you referred to, has ~13% chromium (indicated by the 'Cr13' in the name). The '8' in the name refers to 0.8% carbon content, the 'Mo' refers to molybdenum, and the 'V' indicates vanadium in the alloy.


David
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Thanks again! I just learned a lot!!!
 
i have been experimenting for a while with different things. today i am trying this

010xr.jpg


printed stencil. with a vinegar towel wrap

012skk.jpg


this is only 2 hours in. i will post pic tomorrow of finished. i did find i like just plain old vinegar, works the fastest and gives the most color. tried the red meat for a blue look but to no avail.
 
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smeecogg said:
i have been experimenting for a while with different things. today i am trying this

010xr.jpg


printed stencil. with a vinegar towel wrap

012skk.jpg


this is only 2 hours in. i will post pic tomorrow of finished. i did find i like just plain old vinegar, works the fastest and gives the most color. tried the red meat for a blue look but to no avail.
Click to expand...

Okay that is REALLY cool! Can't wait to see the finished.
 
Well it kinda worked but a FAIL in my eyes!!
knifes004.jpg

will be trying again with one piece adhesive instead of strips and more masking tape so it does not bleed as much
knifes006.jpg

once i get technique down i will try on a newer knife.
 
How about using some circuit board etching retardant on the blade, the scraping off where you want your design to go? That would give you a sharper definition of design. Then after deep design etch, remove the retardant and give the entire blade a mild patina, making the design blend in gently with the rest of the blade?


Stitchawl
 
Have not tried any of these retardants. I'm cheap, must be the Dutch in me. I normally just use what ever is around. Are these products expensive? if not i would be more then will to give anything a try.
Thanks @ stitchawl
 
smeecogg said:
Have not tried any of these retardants. I'm cheap, must be the Dutch in me. I normally just use what ever is around. Are these products expensive? if not i would be more then will to give anything a try.
Thanks @ stitchawl
Click to expand...

Actually, quite cheap. Find an electronic parts supply store. I've seen this stuff being sold in very small bottles as well as by the liter. You paint it on with a paint brush. Radio Shack used to carry retardant 'tape,' Just peel off the backing and stick it onto the blade.


Stitchawl
 
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