Muteki : Murray Carter Camp knife

C

Cliff Stamp

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I bought this knife awhile ago because of Carter's reputation for high cutting ability. This has a 9.5" blade, 0.190" thick, laminate steel, weighs 410 g. High flat (or very shallow convex grind), 0.8" wide on a 1.6" wide blade, very small secondary edge bevel, 0.010" thick behind the edge.

Initial sharpness was above average, 120-140 g on thread, but well below the blazing sharpness you can get from Spyderco and others. It would shave but not smoothly and required a little draw. The cutting ability was above average, 25-27 lbs on 3/8" hemp on a push, no aggression on a draw, 5-7 cuts to point one inch basswood dowel.

This was a decent level of cutting ability, about 25% higher than the Camp Tramp for example, but not quite as high as I expected, the performance however was a little less than optimal on the hemp and such due to the less than maximum sharpness. The wood carving ability was also hampered by the low primary grind.

The tip has a very long distal taper and thus the penetration is very high, on a stab it readily sank right though a standard phonebook and penetrated significantly into the next one, 920 +/- 10 pages.

The blade however really came into its own when it was used to cut thick woods, the handle was very comfortable and it sank smoothly into the pine, matching the performance of Kirk's bowie I used a few years back. It had a similar feel of a smooth cut into the wood, rather than an abrupt cut.

It matched the performance of the Kellam axe in regards to number of swings, but it was a world apart in regards to feel. However the edge turned on the first knot, the axe and Billhook plowed through much harder woods with no problems.

Overall the knife was very solid through a lot of utility work, really excelled on thick wood cutting, but could not handle even knots in Pine and would get mauled on limbing or trying to cut harder woods. Not quite sure what to do with this one yet. I will sharpen it up and repeat some of the stock work in any case.

This was sold as a "Camp Knife" but Carter noted that it was designed as a Hog hunting knife. Pictures should be up in a few days. Very nice solid leather sheath.

-Cliff
 
Cliff - You said the steel is a laminate. What kind(s) and do you know the HRC?
 
According to Mr.Carter's catalog,they are White steel No.1 laminated between SUS410 steel,hardened to HRC63~64.
 
Cliff!
I own 2 of his knives, one being a kitchen knife, and the other a neck knife in the same steel as your camp knife, and he states in his video that he does put an edge on his knives when finished, but not to the best the knife is capable of. When you buy a knife from him at a show he does a high degree of sharpening on his waterstones, and if you get one from a dealer or from him via shipping you will have to finish up with sharpening to a fine edge.
I had to with the 2 I have, and they were much better, and cut to a much better degree. I used the 1,000, and 6,000 grit waterstones that I got from him.
Just a suggestion from my own personal experience.
I am very pleased with mine but I only cut food with mine, and cannot comment on wood, rope, etc.

Larry
 
LarryLuana said:
... he states in his video that he does put an edge on his knives when finished, but not to the best the knife is capable of.
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What is the reasoning for that?

-Cliff
 
I don't know for sure but 2 reasons I can possibly think of is to create new owners own edge, or saves him time.
The knives do come with a usable edge as you already know but just not "fine tuned".
Other than that I have no answer but just wanted to mention the fact that they do have to be "fine tuned" to work at their potential. I do know when I took mine to the waterstones that the knives were sharper, and cut even better than when I bought them new from a dealer. At the ABS Show I know when people bought a knife from him that were on his table he always sharpened the knives before giving them to the new owner.
Sorry I don't have any answers.

Larry
 
I can understand that they edge angle may have to be adjusted, user preference, however the edge should be as blazing sharp as Carter can get it, there is no reason otherwise.

I just sharpened this one up a few minutes ago, the edge profile is so narrow it took an edge quickly, including removing the small ripple. Beyond push shaving sharp with a little work on a 1000, then 4000 waterstone plus some CrO stropping.

-Cliff
 
Japanese cutlery traditionally come partially sharpened, this is to let the chef or in your case hunter etc. to finish the edge to your own specs. Most, if not all, YSS/Hitachi Japanese carbon steels like yours will benefit from high grit 8000+ waterstone finishes. I get better edges with this method than micron stropping compounds. I believe the stropping rounds the edge a little. YMMV.
Lee
 
A lot of traditional Japanese outdoor knives(natas,kennatas) are finished with scary sharp edges,but I am not surprised at a new japanese knife with partially sharpened edge.
 
This makes no sense at all to me. Even if you as the user wanted to adjust the edge finish it is easier with a fully sharpened edge, all the maker is doing is making more work for the customer. I expect more from a $400 custom than a $40 Spyderco in that regard, or at least match it. Plus as a maker a full sharpening is a necessary step in quality contol checking.

-Cliff
 
Possibly a marketing activity (I don't want to be cynical and say "ploy" because of the negative connotation that would carry). It does get his picture in knife magazines doing that final "at the sales table" sharpening. IIRC one article said that it gives him a chance to do a final inspection before handing it over to the customer.

David
 
4 s ter said:
IIRC one article said that it gives him a chance to do a final inspection before handing it over to the customer.
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This doesn't work through dealers though, you just end up with a heavy price tag on a knife you have to sharpen from a maker who is promoted for high levels of initial sharpness. I'll take R.J. Martin's approach to initial sharpness.

-Cliff
 
It is a very nice looking knife though. The sheath looks interesting as well.

0.010" thick behind the edge
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That should provide superior cutting ability on non-binding materials where oinly the edge is a factor now that you have sharpened it.

I have seen some Carter kitchen knives, they had a very fine edge. Did not use them, bit they sure seemed sharp.

He makes a Wharncliff neck knife I have lusted over for quite a while.
 
Personally, every knife I send to a customer I try to put the best possible edge on it that I can. What I don't want to happen is for a buyer to pop a knife out of the box and go "huh. That's not very sharp." That initial impression is important, in my opinion. I want to try to scare the living hell out of every buyer as quickly as possible! :D
 
If you buy a knife from Murray at a show he puts an edge on it that is scary sharp.I have to warn the bride to be very careful when using them.
I have 4 of Murray's knives,2 kitchen,a Muteki(like yours) and a neck knife.I will put them up against any knife as far as sharpness.Also they really hold an edge.
Randy
 
Chiro75 said:
Personally, every knife I send to a customer I try to put the best possible edge on it that I can.
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A lot, in fact I would say the vast majority of knife users will use sharpness to judge the quality of the steel, and basically extend that to the whole knife. Bladeforums doesn't represent the knife public well in this regard, most people don't sharpen their own knives so initial sharpness is critical.

knifetester said:
That should provide superior cutting ability on non-binding materials where oinly the edge is a factor now that you have sharpened it.
Click to expand...
It cuts very well, for this size and thickness of knife though I do want more wood working ability. Should have went with Kirk, but was interested in Carter through what I read.

The sheath is nice, but due to the way the belt loop curls up it is next to impossible to avoid cutting it on the daw or sheathing, there was actually a piece of black tape left there as a guard.

-Cliff
 
You could probably sell the Carter for not much less than you paid for it, as many people want his knives and put the money towards one of Ray's knives. That is what I would do at least.

Have you asked Murray Carter about the sharpness issue?
 
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