My "aha" moment and some advice for newcommers

[learnme]

This is a response to this thread but I thought it would be more useful as it's own thread. SO, a big ThanK YOU to those that replied and helped me out. Special thanx go to knifenut for being so patient.


SO, After reading

This:
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/downloads/pdf/knifeshexps.pdf

This:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=368828

This:
http://forums.egullet.com/index.php?/topic/26036-knife-maintenance-and-sharpening/

AND This:
http://users.ameritech.net/knives/index.htm

I finally have it down. For future reference for new members, save yourself some time and steel and read what I read and what I'm about to say. My "aha" moment came when I finally decided to let go of my logic and reasoning and just succumb to the advice and technique of those before me. You think you know, but really, you don't. Specifically ,my "aha" moment came when I decided to read... a constant in all that I read was, YOU HAVE TO RAISE A BURR ON ONE SIDE FIRST. I watched videos and skimmed over some articles paying attention only to what I thought was the meat and gravy and completely over looking the good stuff. In my case, Raising the burr on one side FIRST. After I did this I had my "aha" moment. The burr has never been more clear in my mind, all confusion of what it is, is now gone. I can feel for it, I know what I am looking for and I know when it is along the whole line of the edge.

So, after several attempts only to get a mediocre edge, I can now say with great confidence that, I GET IT. I finally get it and have found a profound happiness in my success and simply, at how damn sharp my knife is now after only the ceramic side of my DC4. The only thing left for me now is to sharpen my skills, practice.

The best advice I can give now is to be patient, take the time to read, and read with purpose and not to just read what you think you are looking for. The videos help, but they are nothing compared to articles and actual attempts by YOU. At best they just give an idea of how. Also, don't fear the burr, the burr is your friend. You MUST raise a bur. Due to my logic and reasoning, I did everything I could to avoid it. Raise the burr.

Finally, don't blame your equipment, don't blame the knife, don't blame the edge, it's all you. The success or failure of achieving what you set out to do is all on you. Good luck.

lernme has now learned

 

[Jason B.]

Glad your getting it but this will only be many of hundreds of aha moments you will cross in the quest for sharpness. I have been at it for almost 20 years and still have those moments myself.

Raising a burr is important but don't fixate on it, you can also sharpen without creating a burr.


P.S. your welcome

 

[unit]

....YOU HAVE TO RAISE A BURR ON ONE SIDE FIRST. ......

Yup, I had a similar moment this weekend! While fixing some badly damaged knives I had to raise a burr so large I was able to see it grind off when I finally did flip the knife. Perhaps, it would be better to say that I re-profiled this knife and removed a LOT of medium in the process.

The results were stellar, and if you have never done this...you may want to take it the next step and find a REALLY chipped/scarred up knife to fix. It takes some time, but it will probably have you shaking your head and saying, "yes, yes, yes" as you solidify what you have learned.

Plus the knowledge that you took a pile of useless steel and returned it to "tool" status is a real ego rub.

Check out that burr!

I agree that you do not need to raise a visible burr on many jobs in order to sharpen the blade. However, if you have chips or other more serious issues to touch up, the burr can be a guide to what portion of the blade is "done" on that side IMO.

 

[L. Richard]

Doing the burr thing is an effective way to sharpen, but when you do this you are deliberately creating a wire edge, which is a strip of metal which must be removed from the blade. It seems inefficient and wasteful, but perhaps the alternatives are no better. It's a complicated issue.

 

[dipbait]

Good post.

My aha moment came when trying to sharpen a particularly stubborn knife. I tried and tried then rubbing my thumbnail across the edge I detected a burr. What the hell? I came here to figure out what had happened and how to fix it.

 

[Gadgetaholic]

My "aha" moment came yesterday when the Fedex van pulled into my driveway. Until now I have only had this for sharpening: http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=LSLCKEY

Now I have a DMT Aligner and I also have an old belt that broke which will be turned into a strop (probably 2 or 3 strops actually).
http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=DMTADELUXE
This seems like a good deal - $46 and it comes with a bonus Extra Extra Fine hone. It also comes with a cone shaped diamond grit rod for sharpening serrations.

I have used the aligner to regrind the bevel on a 154CM blade that I wasn't happy with - now it is properly sharp! I have also taken a knife from the kitchen that was useless (I can't remember the last time I used it) and made it sharp enough to slice a tomato. I also got a couple of other blades 'shaving sharp'. It was a good day!

 

[Jason B.]

Unit, you may want to review your sharpening method, your burr is WAAAAYYYY too large and from your explained method I would say that you now have uneven bevels.

 

[ChapmanPreferred]

When fixing a badly chipped or dented edge, I often use the wire edge as an indicator of when I have completedly repaired the edge. Once I have a uniform wire edge with no gaps, I am ready to proceed.

 

[unit]

Unit, you may want to review your sharpening method, your burr is WAAAAYYYY too large and from your explained method I would say that you now have uneven bevels.

Hey, thanks, and I respect your words. I wish I had taken some photos of this knife before I started! If I had, you would probably agree that a burr that size was necessary...though I really hesitate to call it a burr, I was flat-out removing stock. I probably had to move the edge back 2-3 mm to fix what the last guy did with a very rough bench grinder...even then, there are still a few small nicks in the blade that I decided were not worth the effort.

The blade actually is quite even now, owing largely to me starting on the opposite edge that the last guy attacked. I started another thread to brag about what I accomplished with this knife in fact. It still ain't pretty, but now I have a knife I love using (that was re-born from the trash heap).

Again, I totally respect what you are saying, and I did not mean to mislead anyone...but I still maintain that if you are dealing with SERIOUS damage where it is necessary to remove stock, the burr will serve as an indicator.

In hopes to further clarify, I do not really have a single sharpening method. I like to think that there are many viable methods, and it is best to know more than one. I also think that each knife/edge can pose unique needs and consideration should be given to which approach should be taken. I think this particular cause was so far gone that any method short of a plasma cutter would have improved things...and having all fears of making things worse removed, it allowed me to push into areas I have not been before.

I welcome your recommendations for an approach on really badly abused edges...seriously. I have learned a lot on these forums probably not as much as what I have learned while seated at the sharpening bench, but close!

 

[Jeff Clark]

This is a particular example of when you think you are "doing it right" and you are not (sometimes your tool isn't doing the right job). What you need is a way to observe whether a step is doing what you expect. Besides using a burr as an indicator you can paint the side of your edge with a permanent marker and look at whether you are removing material up to your edge.

The second problem is the "you think you know what you are trying to achieve, but you don't problem". If you get a burr and/or you remove material up to the edge, but your edge profile is too obtuse you still don't have your solution. You need to know what geometry you need and what angle you are honing to. You also need to know when you have removed your burr.