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My BOB Presentation
- Thread starter J33psru1e
- Start date
- Joined
- May 5, 2006
- Messages
- 1,265
Generally speaking, IMO, the three top priorities in a survival situation are in order of importance:
1.Shelter
2.Water
3.Food
This is because one will die of exposure (hypothermia) long before one dies of dehydration. This ordering of priorities coincides with the "Rule of Threes": 3 hours without shelter, 3 days without water, 3 weeks without food. (...and 3 months without beer
)Of course, this is not a cut-and-dry matter - without proper hydration the body will not be able to easily maintain the proper internal temperature. And consuming a lot of fat calories will go a long way toward making up for inadequate shelter. So, like most things, the priorities are intertwined and reinforce each other.
Naturally, in a desert environment, water is going to be a primary consideration. But most survivalists consider clothing to be shelter - and a proper hat is probably at least as critical as carrying enough water when hiking around in the desert sun.
I'm not familiar with operating in a desert environment - much more concerned with how quick and fatal hypothermia is (though I do believe it gets quite cold in the desert at night). I think your BOB presentation is right on the money - just wanted to point out that your ordering of priorities isn't the generally accepted wisdom on the subject. But the generally accepted wisdom is probably somewhat skewed to wetter, forested areas.
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2004
- Messages
- 1,046
I've been researching BOB's for a bit and am about to put together a personal and a car BOB.
The more info the better
The more info the better
I lived in the Mojave for a year. Hiked occasionally
after school and on weekends. I was not actively
looking for water, and I never found any, except
immediately after a rare rain.
I wish I had been more active in looking for water,
so that I would have gained some valuable experience;
I was more interseted in lizards, rocks-minerals etc.
You, and some on this forum, know better than me,
how much water to carry;
it is always a balancing act: never a perfect answer.
May I make some suggestions, for you and others
to comment on?
Some of the things I have done and
some I am considering, but have not tested.
For any BOB,
I would always have a bigger pack than
needed: 5000-6000 cu. in. I could keep it half empty,
if I wanted, or put light (synthetic insulated) clothing,
empty containers, etc.
(I have done this over many years. It is more confortable
for me to use a big pack with hip belt than a smaller lighter
pack that has no hip belt or a symbolic hip belt)
You may be at a good water source, the next source
being too far. You might go part way cache some water,
and return. Then start again, knowing you have the cache.
It is how mountain climbers, cache stuff on big climbs.
I would include 2 empty 2-liter palstic
Coke bottles. When empty, they are more fragile:
you can reinforce their sides with plastic cut from
other throw-away Coke bottles, taped as needed.
Small Coke bottles are very resilient, unlike most
other small bottles; 3 of these, empty, weighs 0.
( I have not done this, though, in the desert, I
would actually daisy chain several empty bottles,
with bottle knots, on the outside of my pack.)
If canyons and close-quarters prevented this,
I would carry collapsable containers inside the pack.
Use foam padding to protect containers, as needed.
I would cache water, in advance, at key locations.
(Done this, for short time spans; it works.)
I would identify any man-made or natural source of
water, even if the source was intermitent.
Check these sources, on occasion, and at different
seasons. Knowing when and if they are dry is as
important as knowing that they are wet.
Cache a shovel near a natural water sandy (not hard)
dig. ( I know: most desert looks sandy and soft, but
most desert is very hard after a few inches.)
I believe it is important to develope this knowledge
in a methodical way, for desert survival.
(I have never cached a shovel; but I bet some have,
to good effect.)
Make a primitive dig or well, in advance.
(I have not done this, embarassed to say.)
Take light weight tools that allow water collection:
sponges, straws, tubing, bottles. (Done this.)
Collin Fletcher used an umbrella in the desert, in one
film. I think he was in Death Valley, when he did it;
which was even hotter than where I had lived.
You could push a bicycle that had 15 gallons of water
down a desert road, with a little more effort than
walking. That same 15 gallons of water, on your back,
could kill you. (Not done either of these, myself.)
frank
after school and on weekends. I was not actively
looking for water, and I never found any, except
immediately after a rare rain.
I wish I had been more active in looking for water,
so that I would have gained some valuable experience;
I was more interseted in lizards, rocks-minerals etc.
You, and some on this forum, know better than me,
how much water to carry;
it is always a balancing act: never a perfect answer.
May I make some suggestions, for you and others
to comment on?
Some of the things I have done and
some I am considering, but have not tested.
For any BOB,
I would always have a bigger pack than
needed: 5000-6000 cu. in. I could keep it half empty,
if I wanted, or put light (synthetic insulated) clothing,
empty containers, etc.
(I have done this over many years. It is more confortable
for me to use a big pack with hip belt than a smaller lighter
pack that has no hip belt or a symbolic hip belt)
You may be at a good water source, the next source
being too far. You might go part way cache some water,
and return. Then start again, knowing you have the cache.
It is how mountain climbers, cache stuff on big climbs.
I would include 2 empty 2-liter palstic
Coke bottles. When empty, they are more fragile:
you can reinforce their sides with plastic cut from
other throw-away Coke bottles, taped as needed.
Small Coke bottles are very resilient, unlike most
other small bottles; 3 of these, empty, weighs 0.
( I have not done this, though, in the desert, I
would actually daisy chain several empty bottles,
with bottle knots, on the outside of my pack.)
If canyons and close-quarters prevented this,
I would carry collapsable containers inside the pack.
Use foam padding to protect containers, as needed.
I would cache water, in advance, at key locations.
(Done this, for short time spans; it works.)
I would identify any man-made or natural source of
water, even if the source was intermitent.
Check these sources, on occasion, and at different
seasons. Knowing when and if they are dry is as
important as knowing that they are wet.
Cache a shovel near a natural water sandy (not hard)
dig. ( I know: most desert looks sandy and soft, but
most desert is very hard after a few inches.)
I believe it is important to develope this knowledge
in a methodical way, for desert survival.
(I have never cached a shovel; but I bet some have,
to good effect.)
Make a primitive dig or well, in advance.
(I have not done this, embarassed to say.)
Take light weight tools that allow water collection:
sponges, straws, tubing, bottles. (Done this.)
Collin Fletcher used an umbrella in the desert, in one
film. I think he was in Death Valley, when he did it;
which was even hotter than where I had lived.
You could push a bicycle that had 15 gallons of water
down a desert road, with a little more effort than
walking. That same 15 gallons of water, on your back,
could kill you. (Not done either of these, myself.)
frank
I just realized that you are car oriented.
Take plenty of water and store it low in
your car. Be aware, rough roads, cause
jostling of containers, and they can be
damaged, causing leaks, and further
damaging food or equipment.
I would either use super heavy duty
containers or be extremely careful in
packing and padding the containers.
There are desert survival books for cars,
4wd, etc. Get and read all you can.
I would be particularly attentive to any
ways to repair tires, and especially side
walls: product called "baha boot".
A 4wd club in your area might have advice
or an actual publication. Likewise for other
clubs: rock-hounds, birders, etc.
A large plastic woven tarp, would not weigh
to much for a car. In the case of a breakdown,
it cold shade you, while in or near the car.
Two separate tarps of different bright colors,
would be even better. Ropes for tarps, of course.
frank
Take plenty of water and store it low in
your car. Be aware, rough roads, cause
jostling of containers, and they can be
damaged, causing leaks, and further
damaging food or equipment.
I would either use super heavy duty
containers or be extremely careful in
packing and padding the containers.
There are desert survival books for cars,
4wd, etc. Get and read all you can.
I would be particularly attentive to any
ways to repair tires, and especially side
walls: product called "baha boot".
A 4wd club in your area might have advice
or an actual publication. Likewise for other
clubs: rock-hounds, birders, etc.
A large plastic woven tarp, would not weigh
to much for a car. In the case of a breakdown,
it cold shade you, while in or near the car.
Two separate tarps of different bright colors,
would be even better. Ropes for tarps, of course.
frank
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2005
- Messages
- 6,768
First off , excellent thread J33psru1e :thumbup:
Very informative and obviously thought out.
If I may , I would throw out a few more ideas of items to add and explain why.
I would include a few niceties such as a pack of smokes , caffiene source , chewing gum and a few necessities such as a compact toothbrush and paste or a small tin of baking soda salt mixture. First aid kit would definatly include Ibuprofin , aspirin , small tube of Neo Sporin.
I would also include a small transistor radio such as the Radio Shack pocket radio and an extra set of batteries.
Smokes ? Well you ever seen a nervous smoker with no smokes ? plus they have 'bartering' power hehe , caffiene to stay awake if needed - who knows what is going to take place
- chewing gum to provide some comfort , also gum helps me stave off being hungry , toothbrush and paste if both compact , take up little space and are worth it , what if your 72 hours turns into a month ? First Aid add ons are essential IMO , infected wounds can irritate at least and kill at most , some pain killers can help make life a little more livable - headache , injury , your lady has cramps etc. Food for thought.
The way I see it , where I live there are only a few natural disasters I have to contend with , earthquake and flood , both of which have happened here before , I live in Fresno , which is in the central valley of California.
I 'bent' my B.O.B. to suit my area and what I think I would need.
Realistically in a 3 day period I would not go too far in an emergency , I have two main choices , both of which are in either mountain range skirting my valley , Sierra Nevada's and the Coastal range.
Water is plentiful in the SN , but the Coastal is pretty arid , especially in the summer. In the valley here there is also plentiful water , and though water would be part of my "later dood strategy" it wouldnt be too awful hard to obtain more in my general area. My main problem would be population density... There are a Lot of people in this valley and the surrounding foothills.
Hungry people , scared people , thirsty people and of course , mean people..
I find it darkly amusing that so many people do not at least prepare a little for such situations , none of us want them to occur but like the old saying goes "shit happens?".
I know many single women with one or more kids that never think about anything remotely similiar occuring , no stored food or water etc etc , no personal protection , it makes me wonder sometimes about how manufactured many people have become... anyways.
Here is a pic of my B.O.B. , missing a few items but mostly intact.
The pack is an Austrian surplus rucksack , very sturdy indeed , nice belt, plenty of space and water resistant to a point
Contents are varied according to what I think I would need if I had to amscray into the night for a spell.
(from right to left)
U.S. Surplus 'floppy hat' - these hat rule and they are cheap , last forever
Bandana (Steelers )- a bandana is a necessity IMO , no wieght and a multitude of uses
Datrex emergency ration bars - food !
First aid kit in old Memorex cassete holders/black - basic first aid plus add ons , Carmex, Dr. Bells pomade , soap , alcohol pads , first aid tape/waterproof, space blanket.
In reusable plastic bag/TP and waterproof matches.
Gerber MT and sheath
Vivitar monocular
Realtree duct tape
Mess kit - Genuine WW2 mess kit with spoon , two prong fork (witch also has more uses) and mess knife w/bottle opener / laying on T towel which they fold up in and go into my mess kit that holds a few large plastic bags and a dishrag , multiple uses for most of that.
Magnesium block and small knife chained onto it.
Signal mirror , small bottle of CLP , pocket stone , pry bar/nail puller , extra AA batteries , cheapo 8 LED light (runs a looong time on 1 AA) , citronella candle and two stubbies , emergency water filter , PA tablets , Pheonix arms 22LR pistol (small , ammo is plentiful and cheap, 10 round clip , reliable little semi-auto w/holster extra clip. Some big ass Argentine jungle type knife with homemade "sheath" material and paracord , Byrd folder and two small bungee's.
The thing is , I often go thru it , wondering if I would really have a need for some of that , threads like this keep me thinking and re-configuring
Thanks for the info guys , later.
Todd
Very informative and obviously thought out.
If I may , I would throw out a few more ideas of items to add and explain why.
I would include a few niceties such as a pack of smokes , caffiene source , chewing gum and a few necessities such as a compact toothbrush and paste or a small tin of baking soda salt mixture. First aid kit would definatly include Ibuprofin , aspirin , small tube of Neo Sporin.
I would also include a small transistor radio such as the Radio Shack pocket radio and an extra set of batteries.
Smokes ? Well you ever seen a nervous smoker with no smokes ? plus they have 'bartering' power hehe , caffiene to stay awake if needed - who knows what is going to take place
- chewing gum to provide some comfort , also gum helps me stave off being hungry , toothbrush and paste if both compact , take up little space and are worth it , what if your 72 hours turns into a month ? First Aid add ons are essential IMO , infected wounds can irritate at least and kill at most , some pain killers can help make life a little more livable - headache , injury , your lady has cramps etc. Food for thought.The way I see it , where I live there are only a few natural disasters I have to contend with , earthquake and flood , both of which have happened here before , I live in Fresno , which is in the central valley of California.
I 'bent' my B.O.B. to suit my area and what I think I would need.
Realistically in a 3 day period I would not go too far in an emergency , I have two main choices , both of which are in either mountain range skirting my valley , Sierra Nevada's and the Coastal range.
Water is plentiful in the SN , but the Coastal is pretty arid , especially in the summer. In the valley here there is also plentiful water , and though water would be part of my "later dood strategy" it wouldnt be too awful hard to obtain more in my general area. My main problem would be population density... There are a Lot of people in this valley and the surrounding foothills.
Hungry people , scared people , thirsty people and of course , mean people..
I find it darkly amusing that so many people do not at least prepare a little for such situations , none of us want them to occur but like the old saying goes "shit happens?".
I know many single women with one or more kids that never think about anything remotely similiar occuring , no stored food or water etc etc , no personal protection , it makes me wonder sometimes about how manufactured many people have become... anyways.
Here is a pic of my B.O.B. , missing a few items but mostly intact.
The pack is an Austrian surplus rucksack , very sturdy indeed , nice belt, plenty of space and water resistant to a point
Contents are varied according to what I think I would need if I had to amscray into the night for a spell.
(from right to left)
U.S. Surplus 'floppy hat' - these hat rule and they are cheap , last forever
Bandana (Steelers
)- a bandana is a necessity IMO , no wieght and a multitude of usesDatrex emergency ration bars - food !
First aid kit in old Memorex cassete holders/black - basic first aid plus add ons , Carmex, Dr. Bells pomade , soap , alcohol pads , first aid tape/waterproof, space blanket.
In reusable plastic bag/TP and waterproof matches.
Gerber MT and sheath
Vivitar monocular
Realtree duct tape
Mess kit - Genuine WW2 mess kit with spoon , two prong fork (witch also has more uses) and mess knife w/bottle opener / laying on T towel which they fold up in and go into my mess kit that holds a few large plastic bags and a dishrag , multiple uses for most of that.
Magnesium block and small knife chained onto it.
Signal mirror , small bottle of CLP , pocket stone , pry bar/nail puller , extra AA batteries , cheapo 8 LED light (runs a looong time on 1 AA) , citronella candle and two stubbies , emergency water filter , PA tablets , Pheonix arms 22LR pistol (small , ammo is plentiful and cheap, 10 round clip , reliable little semi-auto w/holster extra clip. Some big ass Argentine jungle type knife with homemade "sheath" material and paracord , Byrd folder and two small bungee's.
The thing is , I often go thru it , wondering if I would really have a need for some of that , threads like this keep me thinking and re-configuring
Thanks for the info guys , later.
Todd
I did some more thinking and could not let this pass.
This could get some people in trouble.
J33psru1e wrote:
My own experience has shown that during an 8 hour long hike over relatively flat ground in 100 degree weather I go through a gallon of water a day. This only accounts for water I drink, not for water used for cleaning up in camp.
Unquote.
This seems optimistic to me. You probably completed the hike with a
water deficit, and drank a lot more water after the hike. For summer,
in the desert, a 100 degree day is on the cool side. In your presentation,
you should also present the water needs for hotter days, and rougher
terrain: 3 gallons plus, I think.
Check with some others who regularly hike the desert in summer; but
make sure you account for water they drink afterward.
Please consider: Until your piss is light yellow, you have a water deficit.
frank
This could get some people in trouble.
J33psru1e wrote:
My own experience has shown that during an 8 hour long hike over relatively flat ground in 100 degree weather I go through a gallon of water a day. This only accounts for water I drink, not for water used for cleaning up in camp.
Unquote.
This seems optimistic to me. You probably completed the hike with a
water deficit, and drank a lot more water after the hike. For summer,
in the desert, a 100 degree day is on the cool side. In your presentation,
you should also present the water needs for hotter days, and rougher
terrain: 3 gallons plus, I think.
Check with some others who regularly hike the desert in summer; but
make sure you account for water they drink afterward.
Please consider: Until your piss is light yellow, you have a water deficit.
frank
xbxb
Basic Member
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2005
- Messages
- 1,618
This has been really great information. I too have a car bob with a pack in my trunk in case I have to take off on a walk. The only thing I saw missing for a car bob and I have to tell you I use it all the time for a variety of things is a small crowbar. If you have to to some tough stuff it's really a handy tool to have around.
At your first presentation, you may have an audience
composed of only hard core guys. They can get by on
less water.
At later presentations, you may have people who are
quite diverse in their fitness. Some guys are active:
some endurance and some good muscles, but have
30-50 extra pounds of fat. Others may have this much
fat and no endurance or muscles.
Some may work out at the gym, and appear in good
shape but cannot walk very far. Some run but do not
ever walk; it takes different muscles. Some never walk
in boots, so their feet and boots are not broken-in.
frank
composed of only hard core guys. They can get by on
less water.
At later presentations, you may have people who are
quite diverse in their fitness. Some guys are active:
some endurance and some good muscles, but have
30-50 extra pounds of fat. Others may have this much
fat and no endurance or muscles.
Some may work out at the gym, and appear in good
shape but cannot walk very far. Some run but do not
ever walk; it takes different muscles. Some never walk
in boots, so their feet and boots are not broken-in.
frank
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2003
- Messages
- 20,207
fnc said:
One wonders: do they sweat less?
I like people who know what they are talking about :jerkit:
Active people need more water because they are more active, simple as that. Water is a direct link to my flexability in martial arts.
Also, people who eat more protein than avg need more water than avg because the body needs a lot of water to properly digest proteins.
Active people need more water because they are more active, simple as that. Water is a direct link to my flexability in martial arts.
Also, people who eat more protein than avg need more water than avg because the body needs a lot of water to properly digest proteins.